Ed_Haynes

Beautiful!

Ed, when the original 3 class Ashoka Chakra was changed in 1967 to 3 separate awards, did the design change? If so, which one is the one depicted here?

Good question. Until 1967, the Ashoka Chakra (and other awards like the Vishisht Seva Medal) has a "class" structure. It was three separate awards, different metals, different ribbons, but under the same "name umbrella". In 1967, these were changed and renamed. For the Ashoka Chakra I, there was no design change and the medal remained the same. The other medals were redesigned with the new names:

Ashoka Chakra I => Ashoka Chakra

Ashoka Chakra II => Kirti Chakra

Ashoka Chakra III => Shaurya Chakra

So . . . the ACI shown here could just as easily be a post-1967 AC, were it not for the title on the case and the known provenance and history (from the ANS collection, purchased from the Calcutta Mint -- something they stopped doing in the early 1970s -- and gifted to the ANS collection in 1984 -- in the case was the original ANS collection tag).

Yes, Brian. That hurt. Bad. But post-1947 India is, after all, my #1 collecting area!

And these are things that collectors will never see.

So probably best as a single page showing how names & designs have changed with time?

Yeah, I think so. It is, essentially, the same order, at least the same social and phaleristic niche.

3- And the bar.

2- The medal, with the gilt long gone (as with all I've seen!).

Maybe not so rare, but, the way things are going, this M&E specimen of the Maha Vir Chakra (MCV, the 2nd-level military gallantry decoration) may be as close as I ever get.

1- The domed 1960s mint case.

3- And, as with the PVC, the rarest part, the unawarded undocumented AC1 bar. Much better gilding than the medal!

2- The medal. Nice (?) to see the gilt is mostly evaporated on this one, as with the USI-I specimen.

The Ashoka Chakra I (AC1 ~= GC).

1- The high-domed named Calcutta Mint case.

3- And the bar. Never awarded, of course. And, so far as I know, this design is nothing the MoD medal office has ever seen!

2- The medal. The same dark bronze I have seen on the mint-supplied specimen at the USI-I. So dark and rich it is hard to scan.

As close as I'll ever get to The Real Thing?

The Param Vir Chakra (PVC +~ VC) specimen from the ANS III sale.

Many things interesting:

1- The case, the high-domed 1960s fine black leather case I have seen before, but not named.

From the latest Morton and Eden sale, some cased mint specimens of the three highest Indian gallantry awards. The sports of things (at least the first two) that no Normal Human will ever get. Until the early 1970s, the Calcutta Mint sold these specimen sets.

Oh, Megan. Not easy. But what is when it comes to Mongolian awards?!

Part of the problem is the sloppy and imprecise translations we are stuck with.

These are the same award, but with different names in different eras. More a matter of heritage and inheritance than anything else?

Very very roughly:

ORDER OF LITERACY VALOR (1926-31) - A 25

-- Type 1.1 (no star at top, 3 maker?s mark, unnumbered ? is this variety marked ?I?, ?II?, ?III? by class? ? ever issued?)

-- Type 1.2 (no star at top, МОНДВОР mintmark, serial number No ? is this variety marked ?I?, ?II?, ?III? by class? ? ever issued?) - Low = ??/High = ??

-- Type 1.3 (no star at top, МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark, serial number No ? is this variety marked ?I?, ?II?, ?III? by class? ? ever issued?) - Low = ??/High = ??

-- Type 2.1 (larger star at top, three maker?s marks, unnumbered)

-- Type 2.2 (larger star at top, МОНДВОР, numbered No) - Low = 240/High = 260

-- Type 3 (as the Order of Civil Valor but with smaller star at top) - Low = ??/High = 165 1931-40

ORDER OF CIVIL VALOR (1931-45) - A 26

-- Type 4.1 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; SN at 6 o'clock) - Low = 138/High = 2325

-- Type 4.2 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; SN at 12 o?clockt) - Low = 1837/High = 2335

ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF LABOUR VALOR (1945--) - A 27 & A 28

-- Type 1 (Screwback, ~ 4000 awarded) - Low = 83/High = 3913 (A 27, 1945-70)

-- Type 2.1 (Pinback, silver) - Low = 4029/High = 7020 (A 28, 1970--)

-- Type 2.2 (pinback bronze ? to date, not awarded, so numbered specimens probably fraudulent) - Low = 9050/High = 9060

-- Type 2.3 (pinback bronze, not numbered, unawarded escapee?)

LOVELY groups!!

Same wishes to all.

The two varieties, side-by-side.

And, though already shown, here is the obverse and reverse of the NATO medal for ISAF, the International Security Assistance Force (though known on the famous Chicken Street in Kabul as the "International Shopping Assistance Force").

And one of those "commemorative" abominations making the rounds in the US for those who need some phaleristic Viagra.

And back on topic, the US medal. A piece of work. Well, a piece of something.

I am ignoring Afghan awards for the First Afghan War (the Order of the Durrani Empire and the Ghuznee Medal, 1839) as these are awards by the collaborationist Afghan government to foreign occuipation forces. (Again, an Afghan historical understanding here.)

And the Independence Medal, for the Afghan declaration of independence in 1309 (= 1931 C.E.) after their defeat of the British invasion in 1919. While not a medal for the war as such, it is seen as the logical outgrowth of that conflict.

(And, yes, I reflect the habitual Afghan version of their history, that even since the Greek invasion, they have eventually defeated foreign invaders.)

The Independence Medal.

The only ones I have seen for repulsing foreign invaders are the somewhat mysterious Medal for Kabul, 1890. I believe this a kind of victory medal for defeating the British invaders.

A rather worn specimen.

I have it on good authority that an enameled ribbon bat of that set that is split between Christer

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15730&st=22

and myself

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15730&st=51

surfaced some time back and went off to Germany. So this probably idetifiable ribbon set is now well and truly split.

I can think of a few other British Medals....

Afgan Campaign Medal 1880

India General Service Medal Calsp afgan 1919, sure there`s a few other clasps- a long the NWF lines.

I`m sure the Russians must have had one as well?

I also have similar pages on the other four Afghan Wars: 1839-42, 1878-80, 1919, and 1979-89. Not just the Fifth Afghan War, 2001--.

Do we want this thread to include ALL these or just the current war? I'd think that, given the ficus of the sub-forum, we'd just do the 5th here?