Ed_Haynes

Please post and discuss relevant/interesting news pieces here.

To be candid, this one was and is a matter of rolling the dice, and maybe (long shot?) it is legitimate. We won't know until a research response arrives, and maybe not even then. Kim was 100% (well, actually, closer to 120%!) honest on this, he's unsure, I'm unsure, though we both have hopes.

We shall see what we see.

Yes, Dave, you echo many of my concerns. The price was a "parts" price. And I know that a "not found" result is likely if it is kosher; in this odd case, finding research would be a bad sign.

May never know though.

If it's a group, I wonder why the Prague medal is an older version and that the Victory over Germany and Berlin Capture medal are later variation.

So if it's legit, it should have an interesting story from being partisan and the under Koniev orders in fighting in Berlin and in Prague.

I myself believe it's a "put together", but I'm no specialist. So let's wait for the results.

Soviet and Rick, you have touched on some of my concerns. We shall see, soon I hope.

Doc, I hope you're right, but . . . ???

Am I overly paranoid? Well, I do collect Soviet ODM . . . .

I know of several for sale in Ulanbaatar, though most dealers are hoarding them just now, expecting a major price rise. Was shown two (both screwback) with prices attached: $2500 for # 716 and a very silly $15,000 for # 8 (though the recipient was probably a "someone").

And the reverse. Have at it, please.

I have recently acquired hosting rights to the group shown from a Fellow Forumite. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't a group (and it was sold and acquired on that basis). Pending research on the gallantry medal (2279019 has been requested) I have posted it here, for comments.

I think it's probably just a different production run from another factory.

Thanks, Jan. My current thinking is completely in agreement with your theory.

We need to be careful not to confuse manufacturing "runs" with real "types". Some things, I know, were made in Hungary, maybe some in East Germany, others in ??? There are non-Mongolian, non-Soviet productions to contend with.

As the text above may not be legible:

Here is one example from an interesting set that I picked up. While I need to check to see that what I have is complete, the series shows all heroes as of date of publication.

There is, by the way, some hope that there may soon be a book (bilingual in Mongolian and English) on all the heroes.

OK, going back through the threads, I didn't find # 206, but I did find JC's # 286 in http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5236&st=22 and it is a mirror reverse.

I also found a new flatback high that I had missed in my list in Dolf's # 886 at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5236&st=32 so my new one held the record for a few minutes only.

Tentatively, then, I guess we can count # 206 as a mirror back, leaving things somewhat confused as:

A 61.1/ A 61.2 - Type 1 (mirror reverse) - Low = 206/High = 5009

A 61.3 - Type 2 (flat reverse) - Low = 203/High = 886

Or is the flat reverse merely a variant?

Thoughts??

Here is an interesting datapoint in our quest to disentangle these badges.

To review what we thought we knew up until now:

The "gold-silver-bronze" business is wrong (Battushig agrees 100%) and we have a typology of:

A 61.1/ A 61.2 - Type 1 (mirror reverse, thin silver gilt) - Low = 206/High = 5009

A 61.3 - Type 2 (flat reverse, silvered bronze) - Low = 203/High = 503

Here's a new specimen:

1- While it may not show clearly in the scan, the obverse is silver(ed)-gilt on everything but the cog-wheel.

2- The reverse is silvered bronze, as rough as what we have come to expect from type 2, #715 (a new high)

I can't find my notes on the source of the # 206 data point for type 1 (will look back through this long thread), but I am tempted to suggest that the flatback bronze silvered badge is a revised type 1 (number range 203-715) and the mirror reverse is shifted to type 2 (number range ???-5009). If the #206 can be reexamined and seen to be a flatback, then things clarify and the typology reverses. The new low for the new type 2 (mirror-back) would then be ???? (I have a 1070). If the problem-child,# 206, is, in fact, flatback, then we have problems and the flatback variety becomes an "island" within a mirror-back series.

Will #206 please step forward and identify itself . . . ???

The question of gilt on the cog-wheel remains. While the gilding on these badges is so thin that it often (usually) evaporates or is worn away, careful examination often shows its presence. On most (?) badges, all except the encircling cog-wheel is gilded, but there are reports when it is gilded (and not tarnished). While I'd guess this is just "noise" in the manufacturing process, we may want to peep more closely at our cog-wheels?

Very glad to see this new section emerge.

A detail from inside.

Picked up an interesting atlas of the Khalkin Gol battles.

Ahhh, what a and yet the 1946 Medal is ahead of both the Soviet Victory Over Japan AND the Mongolian version.

Aaaaaagggggghhhhhh. It drives my neat and orderly desire for proper precedence regulations crazy!!!!! r

Agreed, but as these are unofficial concoctions, I'd expect more "artistic random variability" that is "usual".

Pretty, though!

Yes, and that'll drive an inflationary effect on Mongolian awards I am sure... hold on tight!

Expecially when supply is stagnant, the deluge from the bank -- coinciding with Bat's book and the influx of new collectors -- violated everything I learned in ECON 101 and prices didn't crash. Laws are now in force, skewed by the Internet.

Mostly (with a sole major exception) everything I saw was common stuff, Polar Stars and a very few Combat Valors, and at "Alexei prices", ranging up to "Igor prices". Some admitted to having Sukhbaatars, but planned on holding onto them until prices rose.

Access to the files has been acquired. While there all some problems of structire and organization of the files, all that needs is time (currently unavailable). It is hoped that by fall this will be resolved and at least a brief identification will be possible.

Watch this space . . . .

Very nice

I am curious, what prices are being quoted for these in Mongolia (I recently had a Hero star offered to me for 25K USD).

Bob

$25,000 would seem a little high, but not unreasonable.

The silly price asked for this one was $100,000.

I mentioned they all read Igor's website, didn't I?

A nice early (1949) Udarnik badge certificate.

Another nice pre-1961 effort at reproducing enameled ribbon bars under lucite. This with two Honorary Medals of Combat.

A nice early picture of Choibalsan (when he had only one medal) and a Northern Friend.

Reverses. Note that the Mongolian medal is numbered, this "089".

We're talking 2003 here, not 1258 (the last time they invaded Iraq).

Mongolia has sent a battalion-strength force (about 180 men, though rotated in and out since 2003) to Iraq for reconstruction purposes.

They are awarded:

1- The Mongolian medal for overseas/peacekeeping operations. (Also awarded for UN deployments.)

2- The Multinational Division Central South unofficial award.

This came as a group, and it probably is one, but it will likely never give in to efforts at attribution.

The interior. More details to follow.