Ed_Haynes

This is the start of what will be a GREAT thread and powerful reference tool.

Thanks, JC!

Pinning this one!

This one is a very good example why it is SO importay actually to handle (and fondle) these things. I have never seen a description (in words or pictures) that made much sense, until I held one of each, in each hand, and then "Oh . . . now I know!"

And a pretty pair they are!

Nice one, Sov. A lot of history here!

A Russian spy then !!!!!!

'Twould probably be described that way on e$cam.

Eerily reminiscent of Soviet postwar painted ones.

My thought exactly. Interesting!

Nice set, Sal. You are right about the ribbons, but, still, . . .

I believe the front flag to be the Navy Jack.... but I am not sure if its the current one or not... I believe it to be but then again I may stand corrected! Very Tzarist indeed but in line with the tradition of Russian Navy flags if I may say so.

Yes, many of the State symbols have been shifted back (intentionally?) to a set of very tsarist images. When seen on revolutionary icons like the Aurora, it just seems even stranger.

On naval flags, see: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ru~nav.html

It does look strange with the rescurrected neo-Tsarist flags flying!

Thanks for these!!

Thanks for these. You have the skill of gravitating to areas where our ignorance is vast and helping to fill the gaps. Keep it up, please!

I know we're right about the regiment. I don't have enough wartime IALs to find him. If needed, shall check in New Delhi this summer.

While the horse remains immensely important and powerful in Mongolian culture, horseback riding does not to be as much rewarded in the naadam as the other two "manly sports". Perhaps some of this has to do with the fact that the jockeys are boys and girls between the ages of six and twelve. The trainer of the winning horse at the naadam is awarded this badge (W 18).

Archery is also more complex in contemporary naadam competitions. Three titles now exist:

1. Ulsyn Darkhan Mergen -- for the three time winner at the naadam

2. Ulsyn Hoshoi Mergen -- for the two time winner at the naadam (W 17)

3. Ulsyn Mergen -- the first time winner at the naadam

These are shown below.

Archery is not as popular as wrestling, though both men and women compete together, men firing at a range of 75 meters (40 arrows) and women from 60 meters (20 arrows).

From 1992-2004, a new badge, in Mongol bichig was used. Battushig shows this (lion) in his book as W 13. I can't show one.

In 2004, everything changed. A confusing new law on wrestling came into effect. (Lawmakers are the same, globally?)

The ranks for naadam competition were expanded:

1. Avraga or Giant/ Titan - 2 consecutive victories in naadam (if more then the other titles -- ?Everywhere celebrated whole ocean sacred giant? -- will be added but without any new wrestling-specific badge)

2. Arslan or Lion - one victory in naadam (winner of the 9th round, but according to law, the two finalists both became automatically Lions automatically because they won their 9th rounds and reached the finals, so, in practice, there is no title for the actual naadam 10th and final round winner!)

3. Garid or Garuda (Indian mythical eagle-like bird) - winner of the 8th round, finalist

4. Zaan or Elephant - winner of the 7th round

5. Khartsaga or Hawk - winner of the 6th round

6. Nachin or Falcon - winner of the 5th round

As usually, 512 wrestlers compete in naadam, all starting from the first round. But I am told that last year there was a confusion because 1024 wrestlers competed at naadam.

Shown below are (left to right): Giant, Lion, Garuda, and Falcon. Battushig shows a Hawk as his W 14e.

As, as with most things to do with Mongolian phaleristics, one question gets resolved, and six new ones rise up in its place.

What I have outlined above was the pre-2004 system. In 2004, everything changed.

The badges in use until 1992 have been shown before (W 12), but I repeat them here, just to keep the story straight. I am missing the Aрслaн / Lion badge.

At least in the collecting world I know best, if one medal of a broken group comes to market, the chances are high that the others are -- as they used to say in the 'X-Files' -- 'out there'. Good hunting!

From the picture it looks like 1/17th Dogra Regiment, who did serve in Burma and postwar in Indonesia. I have the regimental history at home, so might be able to pin it down, especially if he had the D.S.O.

Right, Michael, the 1/17th Dogras. I am at work now too, with all sources at home. He will be easily traced.

Ah- cool, I wondered what those were. Of course, if i read ed's site more often i would know I suppose.

Or even our very own thread on Syrian medals: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14267

So this is a happy reunification?? Well done, everyone!

This is the sort of event we all wish was more common, as the broken history comes back together again.

It says he's one of 12 living recipients as of 2006. I'm not sure what that number is today?

Not sure, either. But he is the sole surviving recipient post-Falkands/Malvinas. So far at least . . . but I do wonder if policies have changed so much that he wind up as the last living awardee. (Similar problems with the US MoH.)

But all of this gets us from the significant recent Canadian awards, . . . .

There was one fellow Postumously awarded the VC (supposed to happen this month I believe) however, the following is the living recipient won in 2005

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Beharry

Right! This is the sole living recipient I have spoken of. We are in agreement, then?

A fascinating issue, Jan. Let me look and think, though I have few Soviet (or other) parallel cases to show. Clearly there is a lot of design "inspiration" in play. E.g. Lenin => Sukhbaatar (to cite just one case that I'm thinking about just now.)

Actually a Brit was awarded the VC just last year for actions in Iraq. Or do you mean non-British Ed?

Did he survive to receive it or was it posthumous?

I know there have been some GCs, but others than Bihari to live to get the VC? (And Bihari is a "Brit", officially. Though there maybe a poltical dimension here. The BNP surely thinks so. Gag.)

I'm working from memory here, which is always dangerous, so I may be wrong. Any other surviving Iraqi/Afghan VCs???

I don't know Ed, just a gut feeling for Canada anyways....we now have our own medals for Valour and I really think thats going to be about the only way.

Yes. And I think the Australian and New Zealand attitude is much the same, so the VC (as a UK-specific award [perhaps appropriately?]) may be an endangered species (not from lack of wars -- which might not be a bad thing -- but from changes in policy).

Bihari (or whoever his family spells his name now) may be the last living recipient??

Thank you, David. Those who worship and apologize for the Nazis might care to pay attention here.

The thread doesn't seem very active these days...

I know . . . thanks for nudging us . . . !