Ed_Haynes

I found no evidence, that Erich Honecker got a HSU. Honecker had been one of the "smallest lights" in the history of Socialism and if he would have really got a HSU (for what?), it would be a scandal .

Interesting. If Honecker got it, it smells of a Brezhnev-era ("You get ours, we get yours") swap. Citation/reference for the Honecker award, Mike? I find it interesting that, as far as Mongolia is concerned, neither Choibalsan nor Tsedenbal ever got the HSU, though Comrade Leonid got everything Mongolian that wasn't nailed down, even an award specially created JUST FOR HIM (he must have loved THAT).

Many Germans were anti-Nazi, after all.

Thank you, Dave.

And it isn't clear to me whether we have been talking about the Soviet or Russian hero title/star.

It was normal in most countries for their to be an avalanche of marginally deserved awards in 1945 and 1946, what I think of as the "Thank God We Won" (or, in this case, "Thank Lenin We Won"?) honors lists. Giving victory goodies to those who contributed in smaller ways to the victory may be seen as devaluing the wartime awards, but, frankly, I think the victors had just cause to celebrate and play free with the goodies.

I, too, am thinking nobleman. I look at this chap and further think genro. The name is elusive.

Peter,

I am not sure that any of us automatically approve or endorse the acts of the issuing bodies of any of these medals. For example, I surely don't celebrate British imperialism in India in my main collecting field!

The difference with Nazi stuff is the swastika, and the power of that now-offensive symbol is such that special treatment is needed. And, as you know, this generates ongoing problems for Hindus.

I see no use -- on this forum, though I am told that Another Forum still plays gleefully in this sewer -- to get into the "whose atrocities were bigger", especially when this game is usually played with the conscious intent of asserting that Adolf and his "Aryans" weren't all THAT bad, when compared to ___.

If we were to be brutally honest, there are few "saints" among the folks who issued any of the medals we study and that the deeds these medals represent were often "war crimes". Everyone is or can be a "murderous b***ard"?

We are, I hope, approaching all this as historians and not as patriots or politicians?

Ed

Hello folks

Also interested to know if this award is worth less if named/provenance to natives than to allied servicemen/officers. This seems usually to be the case with other medals like the IGS.

regards

MG

I'm not quite sure what you are asking.

The order is not named at all, whether awarded to natives (of the British Isles) or to Najdis or Jordanians.

The distinction between the Nadji and Jordanian awards is important to maintain, as they had different designs, were awarded by different states, in were (and are) given out under very different historical circumstances.

Most Najdi al-Nahda badges that have come to the market have been awards attributed to Brits. That says more about the market than about patterns of award or "market value". I know of only a few awards attributed to Arabs in collections. For those who collect Arab awards, these are (obviously) much more preferrered over awards to foreigners, which were pretty freely given out.

I think the issue here has more to do with how the market works and what has been seen up for sale than as a similar reflection to the often-blatant racism that has, until recently, actively influenced prices on South Asian medals.

I have never gotten into the price estimation game and do not plan to start now. Checking auction prices at a reputable place like Dix, Noonan, Webb might give you a sense, though most Nejdi awards I recall were in groups?

I am still seeking a nice image that I know I have/had somewhere (others know that feeling?) and shall, if there is any interest, put up a long post over in the international section (as this was not a British award).

There is very little information on anything from Southeast Asia and especially on the socialist states.

It SEEMS that this award came in three classes, but evidence is sparse.

Web site? No.

But this does remind me of several real sources -- BOOKS -- that I need to check. If this is Ross, he'd have had the chance to wear his Prussian medal for only a few years, so placing this photo chronologically should be easy.

Sorry I am being so slow, but I have very little experience tracing natives (of the British Isles), being more used to tracing natives (of India).

For comparative cross-reference to the sibling Mongolian bars, see: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=6241

I have seen, and never bothered acquiring, solah-topees made in India for the British.

Please . . . can we play nicely together . . . PLEASE.

I tended (before I saw nicely done Mongolian ones) to think of paper ribbon bars as "DDR" and as "nasty".

Right now, sorry, my heart is going pitter-pat at his medal bar (and ignoring the uniform). Can you please do a high-res close-up, pretty please . . . .

Surprised (showing my ignorance) at the pawlonia leaf in Korea. Would they have used an orchid in "Manchuguo". What was the Korean flower??

To judge by Mongolian ribbon bars (I do not "know" the Soviet ones), there was a range, from hand painted, to paper/plastic strips under plastic, to ribbon under the plastic. Weird and wonderful!

And, for us, more important than the "longest-running campaign" or political issues, apparently the end of the British use of the "medal and clasp" pattern which began (though actually with the East India Company, not the "Crown") with the medals for the first Sikh war.

A fascinating example of Japanese imperialism in Korea. A nice set of Korean and Japanese awards!

Wow . . .

The full list is at

http://sagongs.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=242&st=17

(Sorry, you'll need to sign up to see it).

My guess is that this is a "Mr. Ross" who was awarded the "Order of the Prussian Crown, 2nd class, without star".

Could try the online London Gazette. though this may have been only in the Gazette of India? (The Gazette is cranky just now )

One more glimpse into how that (unfortunate) 25th anniversary badge was viewed (or, rather, how recipients WANTED it to be viewed).

The GSM is the one with the Kashmir bar correct? Are you saying that more than one medal is out of place?

Oh, yes, the Pakistani medals are a random hash.

Interesting story, interesting hypothetical tale. Cute.

But there are still the medals and the asserted group. And I still don't like it.

I cannot imagine our imagined soldier would be so ignorant of the order of wearing of the medals of his own country, in whose forces he served (if we are to believe this group) for something like 18 years while serving the king for maybe 5 years.

As my teenage daughter puts it . . . whatever . . . .

The proper order of wearing, just to put it on the record, would be:

GSM

TiJ

Pakistan Medal

Republic Medal

And then the Brit stuff you all know

Perhaps it is the second row of a two part group.

I was thinking just that too.

There were surely Prussian Crown and Red Eagle awards for the German crown prince's visit for the 1911 Durbar. I have that list (maybe even as a PDF), let me check. But I have a hard time imagining something that high for the police.