Ed_Haynes

Sorry for the mis-statement on New Zealand medals. Always dangerous to work from memory

Let me dig out and post some named Dogra WWII medals for you, Michael. All I have in front of me on the desk just now is a very nice subadar's Videsh Seva for Bhutan, but that doesn't count.

Just on the surface of it, any medal showing Jiang Ji?sh? (a.k.a. Chiang Kai-shek) and hung from the CLASSIC fake PRC medal suspension just smells bad from the first glance. A medal like this could get you killed BOTH in China and on Taiwan if you wore it?

Smells of more eBay GARBAGE.

No images??

Thanks, Soviet. No, I cannot read that. Do they have any evidence for what they say?

Almost looks Soviet with those "ears" (behind which there'd be QUIET a tale?!).

Interesting, Darrell. But arguments are not evidence, regardless of who makes them, especially when they challange a respected piece of published research (The Red Bible) without presenting counter-evidence. I have done a search for the thread without luck; help . . . ??

Discussion? "Discussion"? Where? By whom??

Lots of folks can "discuss", but unless they have done the reasearch, . . . ???

(And good luck with JOMSA, Mike! )

Thank you, Paul.

You think this is bad, Dan, try Mongolian . . .

And there are many fakes, ranging for the very good to the not very good.

Or, better yet, try a good library?

A Muslim in the Freikorps? I'd think that would have been even more illogical and implausible than a Jew???!!!

Please, clarify this for me: were the orders "upgraded" from painted to enamel version during the war, or postwar? If this "beautification" was done postwar, this automatically eliminates the Bulgarian officers from that process. In other words it would mean that they have originally received enamelled orders

I don't think we (quite) know this yet. Were Bulgiarians (or any others) incapable of purchasing their upgraded prettier awards by mail-order in the inter-war years? Somehow, I suspect not. Though I could be wrong.

We need to know much more, to put it simply, and to know it (in the specifc context of the Harp Madalyasi, 1915-22) in the context of the Ottoman Empire. Thereafter, the award belongs to the realm of any European (or Turkish) fantasy jewelery who wished to make a profit on the open market.

And these may have been wartime (European) upgrades or postwar upgrades. This is an important question that needs to be answered from research (not guessed-at), though it does focus on what the evidence suggests were unofficial awards.

Interesting . . . .

But isn't the question we ought to be asking is what awards are found in Ottoman groups (Tim?). It is an Ottoman award. This is something I fear many other "Central Powers" collectors sometimes forget. The fact that prettier, fancier, sexier post-war awards were available for private purchase should not be allowed to distort our understandning of what the Ottomans awarded.

We also ought not ignore the significant scholarship that already exists (both in the various good pieces in the JOMSA).

An interesting discussion, thanks . . .

Non-Christian. HIGHLY unlikely a Muslim = Jew??

Assuming, of course, the St. A is original and correct.

Could well have been. There were a lot of Jews in the imperial German army.

Of course, but in Freikorps?

Welcome Hunyadi -- we need your expertise!!

There is a rumor(don?t know, if its more), that these "BB&Co" pieces were the actually awarded examples.

Interesting rumor. Any evidence for it?

So the Ottoman Government awarded these? To whom? Says who? On what basis?

Absent some evidence, this sounds like forum chatter.

Nice ones, Jeff. Many thanks. Good to see the real medals.

May these assume these from John's collection are coming forward at a prestegious auction firm known to us all??

Interesting, a Jewish Freikorps veteran??

A nice badge, but a badly damaged badge. But at least it is what it is, a damaged badge. If ever repaired, what would it then be? I suggest it would then be a "nothing", of scant phaleristic value or interest beyond the novelty value of a repaired badge and the history of the piece will have been destroyed.

Shed a tear or two over it, offer up a bowl of sake, and see it as a piece of history badly treated by history. I'd leve it unrepaired as what it is.

And then go and look for a pretty one (too).

Just my ?5.

So this is about design rather than function? So Sukhbaatar is out of the running? The Order of Kim Il Sung is out? Just Lenin, Marx, and Dmiitrov? A nice trio for sure, but . . . ???

Nice one!

Not often the "good guys" win one.

Fair enough ... Simon ... ???

Ding! You win, as expected, Christophe. Simon gets honorable mention.

Sorry mine was so easy . . .