Ed_Haynes

I apologize for lousy photos of the reverse. Heavy pre-Ernesto rain precludes outside photography.

Mintmarks. "Higher" on left, "lower" on right.

I don't know if these lousy photos will tell you anything?!

Are there differences? Yes.

The "Higher Assembly" badge is less rich in enamel color (does this make sense) and feels older. Is it a matter of wear of manufacture? Or . . . ??

What are the differences in the legend? Must find out!

More questions than answers just now.

If you MUST eBay, rather than work with real dealers, look for an award to a regiment (not to a corps or artillery) -- easier to research!

Actually, the 2007 Medal Yearbook is due out soon, wait for that one maybe??

A not-so-good image of the Ghaz? Mir Masyedi Khan Medal, apparently awarded to those killed in action (including "foreign friends"?).

Another image of Gen. Wardak.

Note US "Ranger" and "Airborne" tabs.

Truly, the "very model of a modern" . . . general (?).

Antici . . . pation!

Just following up on this last thought, I have been playing some comparative numbers games, looking at the current estimated total award numbers of Mongolian awards and comparing them to their closest Soviet "cousins". While there have been significantly fewer Mongolian awards ever "out there", I'd suggest that there are even fewer "out there" in captivity and in collector circulation. Yet there are (so far) fewer serious phalerists who study and collect Mongolian awards than there are for Soviet awards. (Good!)

Nevertheless, some comparisons are useful. When you wonder "how 'rare' is this Mongolian award?", the total numbers awards are part of the answer, and it is interesting to see how they compare to Soviet numbers (taken from the Red Bible, as it is close at hand). I am ignoring the early, rare, mostly exchanged versions and concentrating on the common, plain, recent awards.

Hero of the Mongolian People's Republic

This is a hard one to gague. There were approximately 41 awarded, indcluding replacement awards for the first type badge. This would put it somewhere between the Order of Victory (14 awards) and the first suspension-style Suvorov 1st class (108 awards). The direct analogue, the Hero of the Soviet Union, was awarded some 12,000 times.

Hero of Labor of the MPR

Also not an easy one. It has been awarded around 400 times. This places it in the same range as the Bogdan Khmelnitsky 1st class (~ 400 awards). The Hero of Socialist Labor was awarded some 20,000 times!

Sukhbaatar Order

Awarded around 2,000 times, this compares to the Suvorov 2nd class (~ 3,000) or Kutuzov 2nd class (~ 3,400).

Order of the Red Banner of Military Valor (I am using Battushig's translations)

Awarded around 6,000 times, this compares roughly with the Kutuzov 3rd class (~ 8,000).

Order of the Red Banner of Labor Valor

Awarded around 10,000 times, this compares closely with the Bogdan Khmelnitsky 3rd class (~ 10,000).

Order of Combat Valor

Also awarded around 10,000 times, this also compares with the Bogdan Khmelnitsky 3rd class (~ 10,000).

Order of the Polar Star

Awarded some 40,000 times, this compares to the Alexander Nevsky (~ 49,000).

Order of Mother Heroine, 1st class

Awarded some 60,000 times, this common award is hard to compare, but falls between the Order of the October Revolution (~ 110,000) and the Alexander Nevsky (~ 49,000).

Order of Mother Heroine, 2nd class

Awarded some 210,000 times, this common award compares with the Order of the Patriotic War 1st class (~ 312,000 times, ignoring the 1985 awards).

Honorary Medal of Combat

Awarded 25,000 times, this is close to the Hero of Socialist Labor (~ 20,000 awards).

Honorary Medal of Labor

Also awarded 25,000 times, this too is close to the Hero of Socialist Labor (~ 20,000 awards).

Medal for Unselfishness

Awarded around 1,000 times, this is half the number of awards of the Bogdan Khmelnitsky 2nd class (~ 2,000) and closer to the Kutuzov 1st class (~ 900 awards).

Numbers aren't the whole story, of course, and the inability (so far) to research Mongolian awards plays a role in "value".

Yet, you can compare the site of a prominent New Jersey dealer who has undocumented and unresearched Alexander Nevskys at $1250 and $1995 (~ 49,000 awards) and Polar Stars (~ 40,000 awards) ranging from $475 (Mongolian obverse) to $54 (silver pinback). The same dealer shows Bogdan Khmelnitsky 3rd class awards at $3900 and $3550, while the Order of Combat Valor (also awarded around 10,000 times) comes in at $380. He has an unresearched Suvorov 2nd class at $14,800; what would the price be for an also-issued-around-2000-specimens Subhbaatar? But, in these cases, which are "rarer"?

Simple supply and demand? Or reasons not to whine over rising prices?

Something to think about . . . ???

(And, as a footnote, those who think there is no more "good stuff" to be had obviously haven't looked at some of my recent posts on this forum.)

The best information I know would be at Steen Ammentorp's fine site:

http://www.generals.dk/general/Kvarternik/...ko/Croatia.html

Steen Ammentorp's fine site lists a lot of "Lieutenant-Field Marshal" fellows but -- on a quick scan -- no full field marshals turned up. You may wish to check for yourself:

http://www.generals.dk/nation/Hungary.html

Thanks!!

Yeah, and, as usual, a rather -- shall we say -- "inventive" approach to the order of wear, both of domestic and foreign awards. Not sure anyone ever followed any standard order of wear?

Nice, but it seems the second Lenin is mounted oddly. A "restoration"?

This is another ribbon group where, if we knew enough, we might put a name to it.

You want named "British" medals for WWII? Then think: Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, or India (post-1947 meaning). Others issued unnamed and groups are faked like crazy. If, as anticipated, WWII medal rolls become available soon, a lot of cherished faked "groups" will self-destruct! Though, at least for an all-named Indian group, you'd have trouble staying under $200 in the West (I shall not discuss the perils of eBay!). Many faked groups have come of late out of Pakistan and, especially, the UK.

Reference: it has many flaws, but the Medals Yearbook -- ignore prices and focus on information -- which is also flawed in places.

Welcome to another slippery slope . . .

The research request has already been sent . . . watch this space . . . .

I've also come back on this... the hype may be over, but so is the strong supply of quality pieces.

I think it's time to introduce the "Sukhbaatar" index... I predict that by end of this year you'll be looking at paying 3.000 USD if you want to purchase one from one of the western dealers.

Why? Because apparently currently dealers wishing to replenish their stock from Mongolian sources apparently need to pay around 1.800 USD for an SB.

True, perhaps. But, to quote myself:

. . . just over 2,000 Sukhbaatars as opposed to some 460,000 Lenins . . . .

While the collecting base is smaller than for Soviet stuff, the quality of Mongolian stuff is higher. Go figure.

Captain Mikhail Ivanovitch Guzov

See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10742

Many thanks, Guy. That list is a keeper!!

I saw this once, but the slow download makes it hard to view repeatedly. (Images added, normally, on the website make viewing possible on a non-geological time scale.)

I assume this is a police identification "dog-tag" badge? It would be current, as it uses, as do many recent police badges, an exotic foreign language (= English).

Ed,

They are to Captain Mikhail Ivanovitch Tuzov (and if that is 100% correct I will be very pleased with the progress of my Russian lessons even though I never do my homework !)

Cheers,

Paul

Thanks, Paul. I know, I know. Hard enough for me to keep the Hindi and Urdu alive, much less tiny bits of Arabic and Pashto, and a more recent desire and ongoing project to learn both Mongolian (both scripts) and Russian!

Do your homework on this forum? Tell your teacher that.

Thanks, Gerd.

Was also hoping for some help in reading the documents (even just his name) and in seeing what information could be gleaned there. It being the first of the semester, my colleague in Russian history is too busy to glance these documents over and I was thinking I might get some assistance here.

Yuri shows both the Medal "Jasorat" and the Medal "Sukhrat", but with little information.

http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/Asia/Uzbekis...rat/Jasorat.htm

http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/Asia/Uzbekis...at/Shukhrat.htm

My notes show the "Sukhrat" as a labor award, but end there

We need to know much more (though Yuri does have a nice list of awards, Megan ignores Uzbekistan entirely!!).

China: The Committee for the Affairs of Mongolia and Tibet, until 1911

Silver (silvered bronze?), 53.7 mm, enameled white on obverse.

Battushig, p. 170, as 05.

Additional information in on this:

The three Chinese seal characters at the top of the medal (the white enameled side) read, literally, ?Tibetan Mongolian Bureau/Ministry?. Your current id is correct, as the official English name of the office may have been a ?committee? rather than a bureau/ministry. The two seal characters on either side of the three characters read ?Second Class?, signifying that this is a second class award.

Thanks to Paul Kua!

So . . . there's at least a first class badge "out there" . . . get to work!

Ed,

Can you show close up of MD mark and serial number on this badge.

Will try to do so. It eludes scanning, though.

Will also do some comparative shots with the lower assembly badge.

I have seen similar badge before, I don't like it at all, if you will compare quality of lower assembly badge you will see big difference. It doesn't look like MD quality badge.

I know, Glenn. Discussed this with Bat. While he is not 100% sure, he thinks these are real. The jury is out, but one (big) vote is in.

A new low for the type 2, silvered bronze, flatback, 203.