Ed_Haynes

Here we go again . . .

Gentlemen, PLEASE!

Can we please keep politics and personal attacks out of this. Otherwise this thread may go almost as wrong as previous efforts at serious discussion did.

Thanks. You have better eyes than I do at this time of morning.

As I am able to mine its information (Russian language only), Airapetyan's nice little book Breast Badges of the Red Army, 1941-1945 lists 4 types with a total of 8 varieties of this naval guards badge (pp. 71-73). He seems to say it was awarded ca. 1942/43 only.

At the risk or taking us in this very interesting thread, here is the badge in wear, G. I. Matiukhin. Clearly, this picture is after the redesign of the decorations and creation of two campaign medals (which?). So the naval badge may have lasted longer?

Around 80% of those awarded in India were officially named by the Calcutta mint. In Pakistan and in the UK they were not named. Tons (almost literally) of unnamed ones have come out of Pakistan in recent years.

"Unnamed as issued" is only partially true.

Fascinating, comrades. This important award (and its surrounding history) deserves better treatment that it has received. And thanks to you it is getting it. At some stage I'll have some stupid questions on post-WWII awards.

But that will be in another thread.

They were used to transport the Indians. They were diguised as nutural shiping. German and Indian crew.

Do you have additional information or evidence for this? I'd be very interested.

But transport the Indians where? Most POWs had already been shipped across the Med by the Italians anyway before the Germans talked their way into custody of many of them. The AHF veterans I have interviewed went by train wherever they went (and then at the end of the war walked toward Switzerland until they were captured). The plan was to shift them by air from Europe to Afghanistan (have seen some of the airstrips) and then para-drop them into India. But then Stalingrad happened.

(Bose and Rahman going to Singapore don't count, but they went by submarine anyway, half German half Japanese.)

They were blockade breakers.

But hardly part of the AHF or the Free India Centre?

Fascinating. It sounds quite consistent with what I have been told by suirvivors and read in the POW debriefs about those chaotic final days of the AHF.

It is possible that the man was on one of the three ships used by the Indian legion. The ships could have been under the controle of the Free Indian authorities and thus would wear the unit shield.

What 3 ships?

Do you understand why I find this hard (well, almost impossible) to believe?

By whom and for what possible reason? Did he serve in the Indian Legion??

On what basis did he believe he qualified to wear it?!?!

There is no such rationalle. I am not sure what sources give rise to this idea.

I'm not sure, Jan, that it has a lot to do with any national currency units, as they're always fluctuating against each other anyway. There is NO "standard" (expect, maybe, the tugrik?). Basic stuff has reached the limit, extraordinary (and maybe not even that) material still has a market? Still pondering what this all means.

The rather well hidden Mongolian lots (which they seemed to think, somehow, were Soviet) in the recent Morton and Eden sale (240 and 331) went unsold.

To try to bring some life back into this (rather moribund) sub-forum, here is one I seem to have forgotten to post:

Well . . .

. . . the recent Morton & Eden "Russian Sale" on 26 November 2008 (and a rather strange sale it was) had:

323 - trio (1:1091, 2:27980, 3:66225), mounted but unattributed and undocumented - est. ?5000-6000, sold at ?12000 (around $18450.50)

321-single 1st class #1438, unattributed and undocumented - est. ?5000-6000, sold at ?5500 (around $8456.47)

322- single 1st class #1833, unattributed and undocumented - est. ?4000-5000, sold at ?6000 (around $9225.24)

All plus 15% buyer's premium, as normal.

These were among the FEW lots which sold at/near or above the estimate, most were much below or went unsold.

FYI and comment.

Ed, a very nice collection of Soviet awards.

Is it possible to track down the serial numbers on the back of the Badge of Honour?

With just a serial number, no. If you have a documented item, early (pre-1943 or so) awards can sometimes be traced, but it isn't easy or cheap or certain.

The same is true for the Red Banner of Labor.

Hi,

I may be misreading Eds post but I think he means the medal is OK but the ribbon and bar are copies?

The medal may be good, I have my doubts, and a better scan might help. I have no doubts about the suspension (and that is not a good sign for the medal). At the worst, it is a fake of a real thing, not a silly fantasy (which is most of what one sees on familiar e-auction sites and even with real dealers who ought to know better).

Plus, we may actually see (at long last) a clasp for the "ASS Medal", the Police Antrik Suraksha Seva Padak / Police Internal Security Medal.

I suspsct there will be a lot of awards. And some will be well-deserved ones. The Black Cat awards may not happen, though there isn't the British tradition of secret awards: If awards happen, they happen, if they don't, they don't. I doubt they'll make the Republic Day honours (26 January), though as I see things, I'll report.

I have many more Visedh Seva groups, but they are unmounted and I don't like posting naked medals. Having lost access to my medal mounting services, I may have to try the do-it-yourself approiach.

3372039 Naik Gurmukh Singh, Sikh Regiment

OK, not incredibly exciting, but a nice little mounted-as-worn IPKF pair.

1- Vishesh Seva - Sri Lanka - 3372039 NK. GURMUKH SINGH, SIKH R

2- Videsh Seva - Sri Lanka - 3372039 NK. GURMUKH SINGH SIKH R

The only real puzzle: How did Gurmukhsinghji manage to avoid a Sainya Seva?!? And no 9-Year? Incomplete group? Did the medals never catch up with him?

The 7th, 13th, 16th, 17th, and 22nd battalions served in Sri Lanka (at least those are the ones that suffered casualties, per Amar Jawan).

3162 Group Captain H. S. Monga, Indian Air Force

Mounting a bit ragged, but a long and impressive (and heavy) group.

According to what I have been able to discover, he was transport, served in No.1 Transport Training Wing which was based at Begumpet Airport, Hyderabad. The 1TTW merged with the 2TTW at Yelhanka, Bangalore to form the TTW there. Thereafter Begumpet reverted to 'AFS Begumpet' name. No.1 TTW at that time operated C-47 Dakotas and Devons for Training. G/C Monga would most probably have flown C47s with No.12 Squadron in J and K Ops .

1- The General Service Medal, 1947 - JAMMU AND KASHMIR 1947-48 - 3162 FG. OFF. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

2- Samar Seva Star, 1965 - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

3- Poorvi Star, 1971 - missing, ribbon only

4- Paschimi Star, 1971 - missing, ribbon only

5- Raksha Medal, 1965 - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

6- Sangram Medal, 1971 - missing, ribbon only

7- Sainya Seva Medal - Himalaya - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

8- Videsh Seva Medal - Nepal - 3162 WG. CDR. H. S. MANGA, I. A. F.

9- The Indian Independence Medal, 1947 - 3162 FG. OFFR. H. S. MONGA, R.I.A.F.

10- 25th Independence Anniversary - missing, ribbon only

11- Twenty Years Long Service Medal - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

12- Nine Years Long Service Medal - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

13- The War Medal, 1939-45 - IND/3162 FLT/LT. H. S. MONGA, R. I. A. F.

19689 Warrant Officer S. U. Nandanan, Indian Air Force

1- Raksha Medal, 1965 - 19689 FLT. SGT. NANDAN. S., I.A.F.

2- Sainya Seva Medal - Jammu Kashmir - 19689 WO. NANDANAN S, I.A.F. (there is also a duplicate issue of this medal, named 19689 W.O. NANDANAN M. S., I.A.F.)

3- Videsh Seva Medal - Indonesia - 19689 WO. NANDANAN SHANKU, I.A.F. (one of the scarcer Videsh Seva clasps, for service on loan to the government of Indonesia, 21 November 1955-???)

4- The Indian Independence Medal, 1947 - 19689 T/LAC. M. S. NANDANAN, R.I.A.F.

5- Twenty Years Long Service Medal - ribbon only

6- Nine Years Long Service Medal - 19689 WO. NANDANAN, S. U., I.A.F.

Apparently no WWII service.