Ed_Haynes

Right . . . the real tragedy is that some collector, probably a new collector, will bid on this frass and someone will be unlucky enough to win the misbegotten things. After two or three such "collecting" experiences, I wonder what this new collector will move on to? Beanie Babies?

When we -- the silverbacks -- bemoan the lack of a new phaleristic geteration -- harumpf harumpf -- maybe we need to find the answer at http://www.ebay.com??

So sad.

Ed,

You're right of course...they're not going to have someone scanning the items for fake orders and medals....that's nuts.

However, you CAN get in trouble on eBay for selling counterfeit merchandise...a friend of mine (shame on him!!) tried to sell some fake Louis Vuitton handbags on eBay and he got a VERY stern email from eBay and from Louis Vuitton the very same day warning him from ever trying that again. His listings were pulled immediately, but since it was a first offence they let it go, and even refunded his listing fees.....

Now I doubt the German government or the Prince of Hannover is going to complain to eBay about their fake items....

Yep, Louis Vuitton will sue the stuffing out of eBay, Kaiser Wilhelm or Stalin won't.

The difficulty is, of course, that there are no laws against selling fake material (and who proves this anyway? = caveat emptor) in any of the countries where eBay functions.

There are laws against the display of Nazi symbols in many of the countries where eBay operates, so these are banned, no matter how much so many may whine about it.

Remember that eBay is a company, profit is center-stage, issues of law matter a great deal, ethics and morality are irrelevant, and "collector values" do not even enter into the discussion.

The RAF MSM was established in June 1918 and until 1928 (and especially during the Great War) was awarded as an immediate award for individual acts of gallantry (in the "field", not "flying"), not in the presence of the enemy.

The RAF MSM was suspended from 1928 until 1977 when it was revived under the conditions which Paul has outlined, awarded for 27 years of meritorious service (20 after 2002). No more than 70 RAF MSM can be awarded in a given year, so the accumulation of years of service is merely a qualifying fact and, beyond the mere time in uniform, significantly high levels of merit had to be demonstrated.

As your grandfather's was awarded in 1919, it would have been the first (George V) variety, awarded for gallantry. Finding the recommendations -- I am told -- is quite tricky, however, as few are said to survive in the NA/PRO.

Not clear whether you have the medal, but it is a nice one!

Wow!! They are spreading around!!! This is a third observed order.

And, maybe, their very recent spread is part of the answer to what they are? Especially as they seem to sell when they come forward??

No., no. Nothing to do with Lion and Sun here. This is the Phalavi-era Order of Honor (Nishan-e-Ifitkhar), est. 1937. Now maybe you understand why the Revolution took place?

Yuri shows some of the Phalavi-era awards at http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/Asia/Iran/KIran/Iran.htm

He also has, by the way, and extensive Lion and Sun page -- http://www.netdialogue.com/yy/Asia/Iran/Pe...Sun/LionSun.htm -- but has more nice images than insightful text (though I have to "Babel Fish" his text).

You may want to glance, also, at Christopher Buyers' site: http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Persia/Orders/persia-orders.htm -- he has some of the better information around on the Nishan-i-Shir u Khurshid (Lion & Sun) at http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Persia/Orders/lionsun.htm

Until we get someone with good Farsi to look at the original sources we'll be in trouble and there'll be confusion.

Still seeking Dr. K's piece, by the way. Moving boxes and stacke of papers around. What my wife calls "cleaning my office".

Nice to see the documents. Those of us who don't read Russian await knowledge and enligtenment.

Hello Ed!!

Would this have anything to do with our conversation yesterday?

Doc

No, not really, just idle curiosity.

In the absence of any other information, let me ask if anyone knows ANYTHING about the details of Soviet awards to prominent Mongolians, specifically:

D. Sukhbaatar

Red Banner (before 1923 -- of course -- believed to be today in the national museum in Ulanbaatar, but details unavailable)

K. Choibalsan

Suvorov 1st (???) class (1945 or after?)

Lenin (before 1945)

Lenin (after 1945)

Red Banner (before 1945)

Red Banner (before 1945)

Y. Tsedenbal

Kutuzov, 2nd (???) class

Lenin

Lenin

October Revolution

G. Demid

Red Banner (before 1937, of course)

J. Lkhagvasuren

Suvorov, 2nd (???) class

October Revolution

Since some don't read across the fora, I am also posting this in the Mongolian forum.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10329

Apologies for duplication.

In the absence of any other information, let me ask if anyone knows ANYTHING about the details of Soviet awards to prominent Mongolians, specifically:

D. Sukhbaatar

RSFSR Red Banner (March 1922 -- believed to be today in the national museum in Ulanbaatar, but details presently unavailable)

K. Choibalsan

Suvorov 1st class (8 September 1945)

Lenin (before 1943)

Lenin (after 1945)

RSFSR Red Banner (March 1922)

USSR Red Banner (before 1940)

S. Magsarjav

RSFSR Red Banner (March 1922)

Y. Tsedenbal

Kutuzov, 1st class (8 September 1945)

Lenin

Lenin

October Revolution

G. Demid

Red Banner (before 1937, of course)

J. Lkhagvasuren

Suvorov, 2nd class (8 September 1945)

October Revolution

Red Star

Twenty other awards to senior officers, 8 September 1945. Details elusive.

Since some don't read across the fora, I am also posting this in the Soviet forum.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10330

Apologies for duplication.

Ed

I think whe took alomost the same pictures

I will close with the changing of the guard of last year

Of course, Guy. Great minds run in the same gutter!

The real sources, of course, are books not websites, but both France and Belgium are not well served in these areas either, especially for the monolingual English-speaking crowd.

Megan's sites:

http://www.medals.org.uk/belgium/belgium.htm

http://www.medals.org.uk/france/france.htm

The OMSA database:

http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=538

http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=532

Both depend on contributions and time.

And, surrounding it all, a nice building . . .

Another view

And

And

The nicest goodies are in the basement treasury

There is, by the way, a palace there too, but who noticed?

A whole new meaning to the idea of "miniatures"??

And

And

And

Some domestic things