Ed_Haynes

Part of the problem may be that most of the clues have had to do with the sculptor and not with the monument or its meaning. OK, that was one third of the question, but we seem to have few art historians among us.

There are several booklets (for Mongolians). Shall be posting some soon.

Are you limiting this to online stuff? There is a good bit of discussion here on books and other normal reference materials. Unless you can read the Russian on the Mondovor site, you will need to actually read books to get good information.

And I'm not sure that seeking trans-national equivalents will work very well. The comparative psychology and philosophy of various awards is just too different, reflecting different political and social systems. And isn't that part of the interest?!?

For those who are type collectors and for those for whom medal collecting is a matter of "tee hee, I have one and you don't", collecting in any field is no more than a matter of assembling the budget to allow the filling the blanks as in a stamp album, so that once you "finish" Mongolia you can move, alphabetically, on to Montenegro. For them, the "hype" passes quickly.

If you have an interest in more "research" facets of phaleristics, though, there is always more to do. But, then, you move into areas of groups, documents, research on the development of the system of awards, and research on individual awards (when that becomes possible). I'd see that as a matter of maturation in a field rather than an end to the "hype".

That being said, we do have one fine basic reference book and more information is coming together both in normal published forms and on the web. This forum has added substantial new information and, when the contributing members have a chance to draw some loose ends together, I think we may anticipate more. The early phases of this forum have been a mixed picture of getting some basic data together and showing off possessions. Maybe the processes of evolution now come into play?

There are, to be sure, only perhaps 100-200 serious Mongolia collectors worldwide (mainly in the former USSR). And this population has to feed on a very small base of awards. When you compare the small numbers of Mongolian awards to the massive numbers of the corresponding Soviet awards the situation becomes clear. Many of these are type collectors, while others seem to be not much more than investors, seeking to anticipate the peak to what they cynically see as a "hyped bubble" and derive no more than a profit. Many of the items going south from Ulanbaatar seem to fall into that category. Supplies are finite and the current situation in UB reflects that. Major deluges of awards have flowed from State sources in the aftermath of Dr. Battushig's book and in the awareness that someone might actually want to buy these things, hitherto deemed essentially worthless. This has resulted in large numers of awards -- for example type 1 herder badges -- coming into the market, almost literally by the kilo, invoking supply and demand rules, and then disappearing. Yes, it is all very fluid and dynamic.

How similar are some of these processes to what happened with Soviet awards in the 1990s? The major difference, of course, is that for Mongolia a good reference book preceeded the availability of specimens in large numbers.

It has been very interesting to watch and the coming stabilization will be even more interesting, I think. Quite a ride and, as the wise old man said, "What a long, strange, trip its been".

Just my two (thousand?) tugriks worth,

Ed

Will it be for civilian and military awards?

Wait until fall. Right now, things are unclear.

Thanks to One of Our Own, , I was able to get a copy of the blue (Mongolian) book here in UB. Looks very good and seems to have been a major source for Battushig.

Now, just to read the bloody thing . . . .

About three years ago, as far as I remember - 14-15K, it was number 4.

Thanks, Igor!

Police badges in wear. Nice badges. Nice police.

Type 1, var 2?

Engraved numbering on reverse (not an integral part of the badge). This #396.

So, may we now propose for these badges:

Type 1.1 (Mongol legend, crude construction, mirror reverse, integral number) - Low 9/High 399

Type 1.2 (Mongol legend, crude construction, mirror reverse, engraved number) - Low 396/High 3??

Type 2.1.1 (Mongol legend, mirror reverse, serial number at 7 o'clock) - Low 32/High 4100

Type 2.1.2 (Mongol legend, mirror reverse, serial number at 10 o'clock) - Low 484/High 496

Type 2.2.1 (Mongol legend, flat revrse, silvered brass) - Low 1128/High 1958

Type 2.2.2 (Mongol legend, flat revrse, silver) - Low 4586/High ???

Type 3 (Cyrillic Legend, unnumbered)

Much to do, as usual?

Bad image of 1.2, sorry.

Short version: supply and demand.

Limited number of awards to begin with, a good book to work with (now out of print/stock and near-"collectible" in its own right), some dangerous (and some not-dangerous) fakes, institutions in Ulanbaatar have disgorged about all there is to give, and a large number of deep-pockets collectors are coming south to feed. Much has what has come of late is from a single source, and you do not need a PhD in economics to figuire that one out.

More to come . . . .

Several years back, a type 1 Hero was sold by Igor. Does anyone remember (1) when and (2) for how much? I think Liverpool Medals also had one (same one?) once upon an age?

Help for failing memory, please.

Has been confirmed at the source. Sit back, cross fingers, and pray to whatever gods you worship.

Ed,

I have the feeling that your crop in Moscow has been fruitful...

Ch.

Not to mention Ulanbaatar . . .

Others, any idea ?

Ch.

Not here. Sorry. Wish I knew, as I have a flock of new questions to post.

Best of luck in your project.

The 1939/43 Star was announced at the same time as the Africa Star and as the war prgressed beyond it's terminal date was renamed 1939/45 Star .As the medal was never issued just the ribbon no changes were made to the actual design.

John

John has pretty much summed it up. Designs -- never manufactured beyond the prototype stage -- looked just like the 1939-45 Star but had "1939-43" as the legend. Only those two stars were announced before the very end of the war and only those two would have been worn (as ribbons only) during the war years.

The evolution of the British WWII stars and medals is a fascinating tale and one I plan to write up for the JOMSA or OMRS journal when I can find the time.

Hi Wild Card,

I don't know what Ed will answer... but IMHO, just for reasons linked to the display... I can't think any other reason.

Ch.

Good guess. Christophe's answer is as good as mine.

I assume that is all they had. The (very) attractive young lady leading me through the collection had few answers (and found my interest in medals very odd) though, otherwise, she knew her stuff.

Almost no groups of any kind to be seen in Ulanbaatar (so far), but some very nice singles. (But museum photos elusive, so far.)

Ed

Then it's the 1939/43 Star

John

Absolutely.

Churchill wanted it worn the other way around (light blue first) by the RAF. How silly.

Probably a good "museum" copy... What do you think ?

Ch.

That was my thought.

Oh, one final one, for any Third Reich collectoirs who may stray over here . . .

And one more general shot.

Need to sort through my notes, but the results of a Moscow-Ulanbaatar trip on Aeroflot do not permit this at present

Off to meet

And . . .

Another . . .

What is this medal???

The victory, by the way, was in a free-standing case just by itself, displayed next to

A few more, before I run off to meet one of our number . . .