Ed_Haynes

DOCUMENT: Medal "Veteran-Internationalist" / Медаль ?Ветерану-интернационалисту?

Outside.

Actually, were he killed, his Red Banner would have returned to the state. Thus, we wouldn't be discussing this - so it's obvious that he survived the War. (I've only gotten one personnel file back from a KIA officer, but that was only because he was awarded an OGPW posthumously - the only award of the USSR that could be kept... technically)

Really . . . you have me very confused now, Dave.

See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2326

(Reminding me, of course, that I need to get together some scans for you . . . oops.)

Ed,

Since these bars are not of the named type and there is no paperwork with this bar....i am of a disposition to find medals for it JUST for display purposes...not to twist History....also i think that the ribbons are nothing without the medals....( exception of ribbon bars, which are for that express purpose of being ribbon bars)

But then again...with the plethora of choices..i may be Mis-representing the bar in its entirety...so i may not 'replace' the medals....

Hmmm, thanks gents...food for thought!

Thanks, but I am fully aware of the limitations that surround German groups as compared to those of most other nations. I am also aware -- and have been re-educated on an ongoing basis by the rich posts and top-quality research displayed on this forum -- that a great deal of history can be coaxed from these unnamed, unnumbered, usually undocumented, "unattributable" German groups. Alas, anything that is "just for display" purposes may, in the hands of the next collector or dealer, become an assertion of a completely fraudulent (yet quite profitable) history and a permanent cancerous growth on a small, elegant piece of history like the one you have posted here. We will not -- and I hate to break this to you -- own forever these things of which we have custody today. In a few decades, they will pass along down the chain of custody that began with the only legitimate owner, the recipient. Excuse me if I am over-sentimental, but I think we owe it to him (or her) to keep his material as unpolluted by our over-active fantasies as possible. We do not do him (or her) any favors) by "restoring" his group according to our wishes, our guesswork, or maybe even (and here it gets gray) our research. We may help our pockets, though.

I shall shut up now.

You're welcome.

Certificates, as available, to follow. Though some of these certificates are unissued, some are "issued", and some may be really issued, these are fascinating awards, indicating that all is not as uniform and changed in Russia as some may sometimes like it to sound.

Medal "Veteran-Internationalist" / Медаль ?Ветерану-интернационалисту?

While associated with the Fourth Afghan War, thsi was in fact awarded for a much wider range of locations and services, as the reverse legend "SPAIN & NORTHERN KOREA & CUBA & the NEAR EAST & VIETNAM & AFGHANISTAN " indicates.

Order of Stalin / Орден Сталина

Discussed before, I think?

Medal "80th Anniversary of VLKSM" / Медаль ?80 лет ВЛКСМ?

Medal "80th Anniversary of Great October Socialist Revolution" / Медаль ?80 лет Великой Октябрьской социалистической революции?

A few more - will dig out others and certificates tomorrow. Sorry if this makes things disjointed OK, more so than usual, . . . .

Medal "120th Anniversary of I. V. Stalin" / Медаль ?В ознаменование 120-летия со дня рождения И. В. Сталина?

Hallo Rick

I really must search a local militaria forum here in Romania for a picture I once came across, showing a WW2 Romanian Pilot-veteran in uniform at some big shindig in Bucharest, post communist time proudly sporting amongst his decorations, his WW2 1939 EK 1, complete with swastika

Kevin in Deva

And the South Carolina state capitol still flew the Confederate battle flag (not knowing the difference) over the state capitol until a few years back.

Yet, in Russia (former USSR), the Commnunist Party still exists as an entity. And they have a presidium, however irrelevant it may be in today's Russia.

Yet, sometimes, you may need to request "all", more than once, to get it "ALL".

Ed, i do see your point...but as Rick says..its nigh on impossible to Guarantee that the medals came with the bar....with these "hookies"

Yep, and that's why I suggest to leave it as it is with no medals. It may be (and I think it is) an interesting intellectual exercise to ponder what medal that final mystery ribbon may represent. But the step of replacing (I'd not use the word "restoring", and might use less delicate words) the medals is quite another thing . . . .

It is a lovely thing with some nice history, why muck with it?

I think it is perfectly acceptable to take a hookback bar with no medals and slip on awards that are appropriate-- there is no permanent change made to the bar.

But is an assertion -- or implication -- of "history" not being made? And very falsely made?

Sorry to be an ethical and historical purist, but I do think this is something that people need to consider.

Why not leave the nice little bar the way it is, rather than manufacture a piece of fiction?

Lovely, lovely, lovely.

Droooolllllll.

Very nice, thanks!

See also: http://www.russtv.portal24.ru/video1/russ_..._color_2000.mpg

Thanks, Dolf, for the display.

Maybe it is too early to start celebrating, maybe it isn't. Not sure we want to remind our cousins over on all the Third Reich forums, but:

"Let no one forget, let nothing be forgotten."

Hear hear!!

A plausible, powerful, and evocative historical diagnosis, Joe. And the usual patented Rick restoration of history to these "things".

Good job, all!

Some of these tales really do bring out the human reality that is what we really study here.

Speaking for myself, I'd leave the ribbons untouched. They were original and are part of the history of the group. But, then, I'm a bit of a purist about issues of phaleristic "history"; in evidence:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2400&st=1

Ach du liebes Bisschen, did you see the 1813 EK Spange? What a great collection of items, and the estimates seem ridiculously low.

M&E tends to have low estimates. They seem to think this encourages bidding. Maybe they have a point. But non-British stuff has not been strong in UK auctions over the last couple of years. We shall see . . . .

It is my understanding that there may be another installment coming.

Thanks for these, I can't honestly say they'll "speed up" my efforts to learn some Mongolian, but every little bit helps. Thanks again.

3rd Class, 4th Grade, right

Yes

I think the basic distinctions are:

1 - screwback

1.1 - nut at base of screwpost

1.2 - no nut at base of screwpost

2 - pinback

Is this right? Mintmarks??