Ed_Haynes

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 3

7- George V, 1st variety - ABOR 1911-12 - 1331 3rd Cl S.A.S. Gujjarmal Varma I.S.M.D.

8- George V, 1st variety - bronze - ABOR 1911-12 - 493 Cooly Agame Rai No 1 Gurkhali Carrier Corps

9- George V, 1st variety - AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919 - 1348 NK ATMA SINGH, R I S LCRS (this is also seen with the naming in engraved running script)

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 2

4- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908, ABOR 1911-12, AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919 - 237 Bellow Boy Allah Ditta 7th Mule Corps

5- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908, AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919, WAZIRISTAN 1921-24 - 187 Lce Naik Maula Bux 51 Camel Corps

6- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908, NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1930-31, MOHMAND 1933, NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1935 - 825 Sepoy Kaka Singh 45th Sikhs

Do you realise what you are about to unleash??

OK, part of the IGS 08 type collection:

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 1

OK, OK, all of us knew this time had to come. While this is a fairly common medal, I think it is vastly underrated and has good research potential. For the record, I am showing one of each type plus some interesting multi-clasp singles.

I do not have a "Waziristan 1925", though I know there are some out there named to Indians. Watching and waiting . . . .

All are, of course, the Calcutta Mint variety; not sure I have ever touched a Royal Mint striking. And, given my collecting intersts, I'm not sure I ever shall.

1- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908 - 4303 Sepoy Jiwan Singh, Q. O. C. Guides

2- Edward VII - bronze - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908 - 58 Grasscutter Mirza 21st Cavy

3- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908, ABOR 1911-12 - Langri Assa Singh No 1 Co 1st S. & M.

Yes, celebrate, . . .

But look at the dealers' lists. You'll see that, still, a medal to a native (of the British Isles) is priced higher than one to a native (of South Asia or other "non-White" area), while an de-named (name-erased) medal falls between these two prices. What, then, does a dealer who cares more about profits than ethics do with a medal named to an Indian? And if you were to de-name a medal and cram it into a group, trumpeting "unnamed as issued" you might really fool the rubes and make an even bigger profit.

The legitimate unnamed medals (not erased) that are out and about are another issue, and they're a bit of a puzzle. Several of us have been trying to disentangle this. There is more afoot than unnamed mint escapees.

And I do not even speak of the fakes ("replicas") that are being flogged about, named to order. The problem is that, in an age of laser technology, these frauds can be very good indeed. If they aren't now, they soon will be, I fear.

Happy May Day!

Name-erased medals exist. Here you have the advantage of an original, but you aren't destroying anything that hasn't already been destroyed.

But the name has been erased! Do we wish to encourage this practice? Like all those name-erased Army of India Medals on the market. Almost all were once named to Indians but erased by the helpful dealers as the market price for an erased medal was higher than one to an Indian! Desecration!!

Thank you !

But this bar without Tunisie Ordre du Nicham Iftikar 4th class

Yes, a real shame the Tunisian order has been broken off.

Sneaking up on it as quickly as I feared . . . .

Many thanks. Evocative, historical, and personal.

You have reminded us of the truth that lies behind the paper, metal, and cloth that we study. I, too, wish you could have spoken at length with your grandfather. I feel the same about mine. When memories go, they go, and all we have are the documents, whether on paper or in phaleristic form.

You have done him a true service.

Ka---thunk

Right through the hoop, no rim.

Well executed!

Somehow, I doubt Himmler would have cared, or known enough English to care, . . .

He was too busy chasing his clinically lunatic schemes, such as Hitler being the maahdi or a bodhisattva of Maitreya (I have seen both in the RF-SS documents). No wonder they lost!

Oops, sorry:

Frank SYKES, GC

No. & Rank at the Time of Action: Collier

Unit/Occupation: Bentley Colliery, Doncaster, Yorkshire

Date and Place of Birth: 3rd April 1905, Dewsbury

Date and Place of GC Action: 20th November 1931, Bentley Colliery, Doncaster, Yorkshire

The London Gazette: 30th September 1932 -- http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

Whitehall, September 14, 1932. His Majesty The KING has been graciously pleased to award the Edward Medal in Silver to Ernest Allport, Edgar Hamilton Frazer, Samuel Jarrett Temper ley and John Ward, and the Edward Medal to Richard Edward Darker, Oliver Soulsby, Frank Sykes and Phillip William Yates in recognition of their gallantry in the following circumstances: ?

At 5.45 in the afternoon of the 20th November last a violent explosion of firedamp, followed by fires, occurred in the North East District of the Bentley Colliery, Yorkshire. Of some 47 persons working at or near the coal face, 45 were either killed or died later. A large number of persons rendered heroic assistance in the work of rescue; and after careful investigation the eight persons named appear to have displayed special gallantry. Ward, pony driver, who was near an adjacent part of the coal face, was blown off his feet and enveloped in a thick cloud of dust, but as soon as he recovered himself went on his own initiative towards the face, guiding himself by rails and tubs, and assisted an injured man towards a place of safety. He repeatedly returned towards the face and helped to extricate injured men and bring them away; and he continued at rescue work for three hours, until completely exhausted. His bravery in groping his way towards danger, immediately after being knocked down by the blast,, was outstanding. Darker, Soulsby, Sykes and Yates also displayed great gallantry and perseverance in extricating the injured and conveying them to a place of safety.. It will be appreciated that the atmosphere was hot and vitiated and that there was evident risk of further explosions. One such explosion actually occurred at 10.30 p.m. injuring members of a rescue party, as mentioned below, and a third explosion occurred later. . Allport, Temperley and Frazer were prominently concerned with rescues from the area of the fires, which was explored somewhat later and in which the danger was extreme. Temperley, an assistant surveyor at the colliery, volunteered to lead a rescue brigade to the return airway, where some men were still alive, by way of the face, there being a fire on the direct route. On the journey an explosion occurred severely burning three members of the party. The party then returned, but Temperley, though not equipped with breathing apparatus, went on, with one of the Mines Inspectors, as far as the entrance to the airway and subsequently helped to carry out an injured man past one of the fires and rendered other help. Allport, a member of the colliery Rescue Team, took a prominent part in the rescue operations, displaying energy, initiative and bravery, and encouraging other rescue men. He was over three hours in breathing apparatus and during part of the night, when his rescue apparatus required replenishing, he assisted in loading men on to stretchers. Subsequently, in answer to a call for volunteers after the. second explosion, he seized a breathing apparatus, and joined a rescue party which penetrated past a fire to rescue two other men. Frazer, who is H.M. Divisional Inspector of Mines, explored much pf the most dangerous area, displaying great gallantry in venturing among flames, smoke and afterdamp though not provided with a breathing apparatus; on hearing moaning in the return airway he ran back to summon a rescue party, but returned to the airway without waiting for them. He subsequently remained in the most dangerous area assisting to organise rescue operations and helped to take out past a fire two men rescued from the airway; and although exhausted he continued his efforts, until all the men, dead or alive, who were reported to be in the district had been extricated.

As The Boss has indicated, an E.M. exchange, but ,still . . . !!!

See: http://www.gc-database.co.uk/recipients/SykesF.htm

Very interesting unit as Ed notes. I wonder if they lacked conscience and character or were totally duped or motivated by something else entirely?

May people do things for reasons that made complete sense at the time. And it is sometimes difficult for us to critique them and their actions decades along. For the INA (those I know best), such a step made sense. And some French, Dutch, and Finns (among others) joined the Nazis after all. I struggle for find much coherent sense for the (non-Irish, non-Scots) British (other than to escape from POW camp). (If we can ignore the fact that many -- even today -- endorse and support the Third Reich and its agenda!) We need to know much more than we do about these Britsh "volunteers", all 30-or-so of them, we need work by serious historians. It may be too late to do so?

OK, in a probably-all-too-easy effort at not burning out the limited brains of all "players" (as Chuck maybe came close to doing):

What (single) British (and Commonwelath) woman received the Order of the Red Banner of Labor (Labour?) during the Great Patriotic War?

OK, a simple (?) online London Gazette search may solve it, but please by-pass that frustrating way to answer this.

Should no one get it, there is an extra-credit question:

What "politically incorrect" (for the time) gallantry awards had her father and husband received? And why?

Should take HOW MANY seconds . . . ???

Too easy, OK.

Nice groups, all. Thanks. So much history here. Keep on postin' . . . .

The first should be easy enough to get from the NA (nee PRO), the second may be more complex, but I think these Korea-era records opened recently. Sometimes kinky for awards to foreigners, but usually they are there if one has the willingness to do The Hard Work That is Research. Not headed that way anytime soon, or I would offer to look.

Great. Is this the full group? Having missed out on two (Indian, of course) GC groups in recent years, I am envious. As Lord Ashcan has all the VCs, this may be the best we can do.

Despite how much we may joke about it, Wikipedia is (sometimes) not a bad place to look.

A fascinating unit.

We may, however, safely assume that close on to 100% of the "collectible" items on the market related to that unit will only serve to increase the fertility of your garden? (But, then, everyone wants to assume that THEIR piece, which has a STORY, is the ONE real one . . . sure . . . .)

Full-sized? Nice? (Obviously.)

Nice. You have the recommendations?

The only word is: RESEARCH

But you've heard that before! Happy for you! Why have these things if we can't don't research them?? And, if not now the knowledge will come eventually; if not us, then the next custodian (though 'tis nice to see the history restored to these "things" on "our watch"!).

Maybe of interest, maybe not, but the latest issue of the American Historical Review has an interesting article dealing with the experiences of German (and Austro-Hungarian) POWs in Russia:

Alon Rachamimov, "The Disruptive Comforts of Drag: (Trans)Gender Performances among Prisoners of War in Russia, 1914?1920," American Historical Review 111, 2 (April 2006): 362-82

See: http://www.historycooperative.org/journals...rachamimov.html (or try your local library).

And the dates are . . . ???