Ed_Haynes

A few to add

Oh, and notice the dress again... perhaps a "member of parliament" dress?

No, just a normal deel.

Very VERY interesting. He was a Biggie!!!!!!!!

Nicer and nicer ....

Oh!

Only with documents can we fill in the details, thanks!

The silliness is indeed extreme: From private commercial (capitalist) issues to the erstwhile "royals" and church.

Basic serial number research (#### awarded to A - person - A on B - date -B as C - position - C) and will come from the President's office, and the doors there are (were) open (unless too many have been public yapping and wielding politics). Just transcribing the registers.

More serious research will come from the archives and be VERY complex as it will take full solid skills as a historian and multi-language and -script capability. Seeking a good young MA student to employ and set to work as a slave. (That is OK in today's post-Socialist Mongolia, right? It was cool in the old days after all.)

Much material in the archives (full Order of the Vajra information, for example), but there is much political sensitivity and they are opening very slowly and cautiously. Fear of lawsuits (your grandaather killed my grandfather ...).

Personal inscriptions from beyond the grave?

Maybe the same tailor (though usually would be home-made).

Still, these are lovely and historic certificates and the autograph is .

Always found him a fascinating and almost sad figure. He couldn't have understood . . . .

While I cannot read I word, I know how nice and how rare and how special these are. Wow!!

What is missing? Any chance to reunify? (I know the answer, why do I ask, but we must hope, right?)

Excellent news! Once you know, let us know where to send the money . . . .

I agree with JC. Nice photo, clearer than most. So many focus on the pertson, not the medals -- how unfortunate for Our Sort!

I don't know of anyone who has seen the sash, so I don't know how we visualise the description in the statutes. Once again, this isn't a precise science.

Sorry, typing while distracted (engaged in "conversation" with family member) led to a word being dropped. Should read: ". . . with 18mm white edge stripes, . . .".

And there are, literally, tons of photos in the archives!

Not always easy to tell from the photos of them in wear (decades later) which someone got (RFSR or CCCP).

Here are four. And Sukhbaatar was dead by then! And in 1931, they'd all be RFSR. As I may have said, the location of Choibalsan's is (was?) known, Demid's went walkabout after his unfortunate "death", . . . others???

No, these rosettes (for Mongolian and even Soviet awards) were more common than we think, though they have usually gone missing.

A nbice site by the way! Thanks.

It would be interesting to know the number of Sukhbaatar's ORB (in the UB museum) or Choibalsan's (once in a a known location, but now??). What if the numbers were 5 or 6 numberrs away from this??

The best picture I have of Sukhbaatar's. Not very helpful.

Perhaps, but why would a seller want an award back if it was a fake?

Because he might not agree? I am not sure there is enough expertise out there on Russian ORBs in all their diverse manufacturing to put all one's trust in any single expert (who might know Soviet or Russian-manufactured badges well, but one probably made in Irkutsk . . . ???).

I guess in these cases it's very, very difficult to have "conclusive" conclusions... even more so without being able to present the award physically to an expert for review. The "story" beind the award is good, and perhaps I should just (try to) get the research anyway.

Yes, we may not know enough to say for sure. I'd be VERY surprised if any research from the Russian side would be possible. Who knows what is in the Mongolian archives. They are prettty good, I am told. If he is a Mongolian (rather than, for example, a Buriyat.)

http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/soviet-...html#post103253

I suggest to move this thread to the fake section for now. Offered to have it reviewed (at my expense) by Alexei first but the seller was not interested in that (response: what if they replace it by a very good fake?).

What evidence is there? I am not saying it is one way or the other, just I haven't seen any presuasive arguments (here or "elsewhere").

I do think there are some legitimate questions and issues. But I just don't see a convincing judgment.

Given the difficulties that would ensue in getting this to you, there would be no way for you ever to get it back, so I am somewhat sympathetic with the seller.

Well, on page 140 (3rd ed.), Peterson says "The sash is 106mm wide, of 'morning glory blue' with 18mm edge stripes, and has the usual rosette."

It also tells us that this was only awarded 33 times (1933-40). (Therefore it is rather rare and teh original sahses are not lying around everywhere.)

What else do you wish to know?

Maybe when we get more recent books on Japanaese and Chinese awards, based on more rigorous consultation of the primary sources, there will be more detail?

Looks like the photo page has been ripped out. Tell the seller that the book is damaged and that the price needs to be reduced. Right . . . .

I did not think that they were awarding that type this late.

But standard red award booklets did come that late, covering much earlier awards.

See, for example, the Lavrinovich group - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2326

True, but we can hope.

Good news! The designs for a new uniform have been dropped. Financial reasons.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8029632.stm