Ed_Haynes

We have individual threads for most of the awards but not, it seems, tor the two most common, the Honorary Medal of Compat and the Honorary Medal of Labor. Why not start them?

This is prompted, in part, by Gerd's posting of a NIB variety over at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5914&st=72 and you may wish to glance there as well.

What Jan and I show, subject to revision and correction, is:

A 37.1/M 20 - Type 1.1 (screwback, number prefaced by ?No?); Low = 316/High = 1763; 1941-??

A 37.1/M 20 - Type 1.2 (screwback); Low = 1795/High = 9263; 1951-60

A 37.1/M 20 - Type 2.1 (pinback, silver, hand-engraved); Low = ??/High = 3151; 19??-??

A 37.3/M 20 - Type 2.2 (pinback, silver, rotating-tool-engraved); Low = 10020/High = 16999; 1982-??

A 37.3/M 20 - Type 2.3 (pinback, silver-plated bronze, enameled ribbon); Low = 18071/High = 23354; 1985-??

A 37.4/M 20 - Type 2.4 (pinback, silver plated bronze, enameled ribbon, unnumbered)

Rick, it seems, like Ed may have mixed this Medal up with the "25 years of MPR"-Medal!?

No . . . there seem to be "thicks" and "thins" of Medal "We Won" (A 41) and there are "thicks" and "thins" of the Medal "25th Anniversary of the Mongolian People's Revolution" (A 42). If you add an implicit Type 3 on goofy pentagonal suspension for the Northern Friends, that gives us three varieties of each.

As I page through Dr. B:

Falcons ? W12e (W14e "Hawk"??)

Elephants ? W12c

Lions ? W14b

Giants ? W12a

Supreme Champions - did they just get a "Hero of Labor" and be done with it? - see p. 32

Did a W12d vanish on the paste-up floor???

How does W22 fit in??

We seem to have three generations of badges here??

Well . . .

. . . you seem, on quick glance, to have a nice "We Won" (Whoopie ) in the first "thick" (Type 1) style (Low = 111/High = 50432, so lowish numbered) and an even nicer "We Won" (Whoopie ) in the second "thin" (Type 2) style (Low = 50504/High = 54706). EXCEPT your second one seems to be a new, overlapping, "low" number for that style (viz. 49997 -- if I read it aright). Is the second thick or thin or is it a scan artifact??

That may be more interesting that your arcane 0 through 9 numerology (you and Madonna and the Kabbala?).

But the MOST aspect interesting is that you, Oh Rick of Ages, have found a new addiction, a new slippery slope. Welcome to the Mongol opium/phaleristic den. Chengis Khan would be proud and we welcome you.

NOT supernatural powers---

experience and knowledge.

And . . . may I add . . . balanced and rational judgment.

Nice 'un.

Some wrestling NIBs (provincial??)

Wrestling "Elephant" (W 12c)

Wrestling

I have finally sorted out the grades (ranks) of Mongolian wrestling - as it won't come out in Mongolian, see also the PDF.

Falcons ? those who have won in the fifth round

Elephants ? those who have won in the sixth or seventh rounds

Lions ? those who have won in the eighth and ninth rounds

Giants ? the top wrestlers who have been victors in several nandaam

Supreme Champions ? ?Everywhere celebrated whole ocean sacred giant?

There are no weight categories.

wrestling.pdf

May we post here our sports badges, especially for wrestling, archery, and horse racing?

Somehow I suspect the "Hero" star is a fake and if it is . . . tip of the iceberg . . . ???

A perfectly genuine specimen released for the collectors' market by the Australian Mint in the 1970s

Thank you, Tony, for agreeing with my vague memory of the Oz-zotic.

That is pretty much becoming SOP for opposing views lately.

JMHO

Don

Yes, so much tends to turn into an increasingly nasty and hormone-soaked "he said, he said" "spitting" match, especially where money and egos are involved. So sad. It almost puts you off the whole "hobby". The attitudes are almost as bad as the fakes that engender them.

It is nice to be among "gentlemen" here.

Nice one. Thanks for the eye-candy!

Amazing how nationalism -- which caused the war after all -- resulted in changes and limitations in the awards given for that war.

I know the group you are talking about, Dave. On one level, "such problems we should all have". And, honestly, I don't know the answer either, I don't even know if there is a "right answer"; I guess that is what makes this an interesting and important question? I have passed on groups that were "too complete" for my interests, storage space, and budget (I have, for example, routinely passed on any group that included uniforms); even though the sellers were willing to sever the medals from the haberdashery, I allowed the group to go on to another good and loving home intact -- or at least I must hope it did.

This may be getting us but I think it is an important facet of issues that have come up here.

It has been called the "Order of Military Glory" in three classes. That seems at least CLOSE to the Mongolian.

We may as well use that name until we have something more correct??

Thanks for sharing this.

Thanks for sharing this. An amazing history lies behind these documents and photos!! We should be grateful they never got thrown out, as so often happens, and are now having the past they represent brought back to live.

This seems to be a very recently introduced Mongolian award. Does this suggest the old awards have been replaced or supplemented? I am told it comes in three classes, indicated by the number of "stripes" on the "ribbon" and the Mongolian number at the base of the star.

Thsi is the first document I have seen. Some sort of specimen?? A dated certificate could establish a time period in which the medal has been awarded (if it has been).

Here is a third class:

While the word "value" seems to matter a great deal to some, why does this so often become "market (cash) value" to the total exclusion of "historical (research) value". I know we have beaten this deceased horse into a pulp before, but is it not possible to collect, to study, without always thinking of the quick resale and flogging a quick buck (or euro or pound or whatever) off the thing. As others have echoed, I, for one, have no interest in transfering custody of the medals that now have come to live with me until I am pushing up the metaphorical posies. Once again, I feel like I am in the romantic minority.

These are lovely groups, and if the market-fixated commercial medal collectors didsdain them, then that is fine and dandy. It makes it all the easier for the historically aware phalerist to give then a good and loving home. For those who want the numismatically virginal medal, there'll always be unissued specimens, never out of the box. Leave the history to the rest of us.

Personally I consider breaking up any group to be a capital offense, though as we proceed beyond the phaleristic core of medals and paperwork, the issue become increasingly unclear (at least to me): ribbon bars, uniform tunic, shoes, underwear, his daughter's underwear??

Most bizarre. Much to ponder. I know the Australian (?) Mint was, for a time, selling specimen pieces to collectors. Could this be it?

Personally, I prefer the "worn and loved" look to the "numismatically virginal". For me, it is about history and not just the "twinkle". Yet, ideally, I'd rather not have something that looked like it had been chewed and ingested and ___ by goats, yet, if the history of a piece or group is good, . . . ??

Another member for the oddball club??

There is a powerful lesson here:

1. Publish what you have, even if incomplete. It will be better than anything else out there.

2. Once you've published it, sit back and wait for more information and more helpful people to come to light.

3. Then do a new edition.

4. Return to step "2".

Thank you Eric. We anxiously await the second edition!

Oh . . . LOVELY . . . when it meant soimething, before the military got their hands on it and turned it into a long service award!

Feel silly posting these, as they all kind of look the same, but these are the latest "twins" to come to live with me.

"2" -- 353

"3" -- 161

For teh census. I suspect neither was ever issued.

Thanks for this wisdom, and welcome to our happy little home.