Ed_Haynes

(?Phaleristic Viagara?)

Making a group artificially larger to satisfy obscure needs.

These early screwbacks seem to hide lovely stories, each and every one of them. We have a duty to history to reveal their tales.

. . . and, in the absence of evidence, isn't this close to manufacturing a group? Seems a nice group as it is, even with phaleristic Viagra?

Ed, regarding #26, the ONLY Order mentioned in the Maharajah of Bijawar's entry in the 1935 British "Who's Who?" is K.C.I.E., from 1911, (He calls himself "one of the finest shots in India.")

Yes, K.C.I.E. not K.C.S.I., oops.

The last I knew, the OMSA ribbon bank had some good Austrian stocks, if you are member. See: http://www.omsa.org/forums/ribbons.php

Ed,

What do you think of Chuck's last answer ? Is he the winner ?

Ch.

Until his last answer, Chuck was the winner

Despite his last answer, Chuck is the winner!

IO-16764 (16984?) Subadar Birta Sing Gurung, Bahadur, OBI, MC, 1/3rd Queen Alexandra's Own Gurkha Rifles, was the one and only Indian (OK, including Nepali) winner of the OPW. Natives (of the British Isles) don't count.

Never have websites up that have the answer.

Over to you Chuck . . . .

Dave,

Do you have any idea on why this 'copy' has not got a screw post but a pin fastener?

Is it a feature of most wear copies?

Order of Victory

The preponderance of evidence and opinion seems to sugget that "wearing copies" are no more than the product of over-active imaginations, mainly propelled by those who have a desire to sell fakes as if they were real awards.

Here's my only india 1895 service medal. I

t's named to (note: Probably misread and misspelled badly): 1375 sepoy pir boilish 5th pjb infy. Any thoughts?

Sam.

Nice, though the name is indeed most odd. Any chance (and I know full well how difficult it is) of scanning the naming in a couple of pieces? Reading this running script is a bit of an acquired skill.

Ed

Thank you, Ron. Some lovely eye-candy here!

There are rolls for each of these royal trips overseas. I only have those for India. (And of the German awards for the crown prince's trip to India just before the Great War too; shot a lot of tigers and distributed a lot of gongs -- that soon no one could wear.) The RVM was also awarded for those attending at funerals, though those would have been mainly military/naval and this looks like a poodle-faking courtier's group.

Again, my guess is that it would be for one of the meetings of the uncle and his ill-behaved nephew, when Uncle Ted visited Nephew Billy.

Naval? Given backing colour??

Could be 1914 Star of 1914-15 Star (second more likely).

The MiD is quite bizarre - for something w/o campaign medal issued? Not many inter-war candidates here? If naval, the dark blue could be that??

Could be 1911 Durbar, but Coronation a better bet.

The next to last: I should know, but memory not working.

.

The last: France, Legion of Honor.

Nice badge,

What is Halhingol?

More commonly and correctly, Khalkhin Gol, the river in eastern Mongolia when Mongolian and allied Soviet troops met and defeated Japannese invaders in 1939. The Mongolian badge/medal was awarded to the Soviet allies as well as to Mongolian troops.

See a more extensive and more focused discussion over at

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5087

13.

Indian state of Patiala.

The Order of Merit (Nishan-i-Iftikhar) - Officer. Civil division. Breast badge.

With the right ribbon...

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

Right! But you have to be careful not to confuse it with the Jaipur State's Medal for Silver Jubilee of Manahara Man Singh II, 1947 -- For the silver jubilee of Lieutenant-General H.H. Saramad-i-Rajaha-i- Hindustan Raj Rajendra Shri Maharajadhiraja Maharaja Sawai Shri Sir Man Singh II Bahadur, Maharaja of Jaipur, GCSI, GCIE (b. 21 August 1911, r. 7 September 1922-24 June 1970, d. 24 June 1970). McClenaghan, p. 164, no. 163.

Got a whole roll of the Jaipur ribbon and thought I'd lucked into the Patiala one.

Oh . . . pretty.

I love watching the pieces of research falling into place and making this little scrap of cloth and metal come alive after so long.

Posted, in part, just to "bump" this thread.

Order of the Vikram Star, Grand Commander (Class I)

Breast star only.

McClenaghan, #80, pp. 82-86.

Established: 12 February 1944 by Lieutenant-General H.H. Sri Raj Rajeshwar Maharajadhiraj Narendra Sawai Maharaja Shiromani Sir Sadul Singhji Bahadur, Maharaja of Bikaner. From that date, the new order became the highest order of the state. The order existed in five classes. The motto of the order was ?In the Service of My People?.

Insignia: The first class had a sash, silver gilt sash badge (70 x 50 mm), and gilt and enamel breast star (60 mm). The second class was a gilt and enamel neck badge (70 x 50 mm) and gilt breast star (74 mm). The third class was a silver gilt neck badge (70 x 50 mm). The fourth and fifth classes were breast badges (70 x 50 mm), in silver gilt for fourth class and silver for the fifth class.

Badge: A floral badge of eight overlapping petals, enamelled green for the upper classes, with a bust of the State?s founded, Rao Bikaji (r. 1465-1504 C.E.) in the centre.

Ribbon: The ribbon was red (kasumbal) with a central stripe of saffron (kesaria) and two thinner stripes of saffron flanking this central stripe. The first class sash was 100 mm, the second class neck badge ribbon 39 mm, the third class neck badge and breast badge ribbons 33 mm.

Some are in my collection, some (alas) are not. The Holy Saint and Krishna sets came up for auction in London recently, at a very low reserve price. I assumed they'd go astronomical and sat out on those lots. They went unsold.

Others are in my custody, see

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2784

or, if you can stand more and don't mind signing up for yet another online forum, see also

http://sagongs.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=30

PS : about the order, I agree it is quite different. Sorry that my pics are not precise enough... I will have to go back there !!!!

Will be in Delhi this summer, maybe we can meet up?

That site, by the way, has not been updated much on account of some major information theft issues. Have been working with Tony McClenaghan regarding the new, expanded edition of his book, due from Spink sometime this century (?).

While we are off-topic but on the topic here is the parallel order for Hindus, the Order of Krishna:

Very nice order, Ed.

About the two points you mentioned : how can you explain this ? Why are they mis-ribboned ? I've to say that the few medals I have seen for sale in India in "classic" antiques shops (not experts) were proposed... without ribbon !!!

Cheers.

Ch.

Almost all medals that come to market in India are naked. Has to do with the mechanism by which they have (until VERY recently) come to market. Re-ribboning them is common habitual practice (however scandalous that may sound to the German collector crowd).

Medals from the States are a special problem though, as most of the ribbons are rarer than the medals themslelves. Except for Patiala (and some Bokaner) stuff that has come to market direct from the families (sort of), a naked State medal will stay naked 99.9% of the time. I have paid a lot for the few complete rolls (10 inches across) of some States ribbon that I hoard, even though I do not have medals to match.

Or, if you prefer the whole set:

8b

The collar badge.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

The Order of the Holy Saint they have is immensely bizarre and is probably a (unique, unreported, and unpublished) master's chain. A high agenda item is to get so eone with the key to open the case for photography for the next edition of McClenaghan's fine book. The jewel should look like:

12.

Indian state of Patiala.

The Order of Merit (Nishan-i-Iftikhar) - Knight Grand Cross. Civil division. Sash badge.

I'm not sure it is the right ribbon...

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

No, on Khedive's Sudan ribbon. Woudl guess a good one-third of their medals (even the easy British ones) are mis-ribboned. They don't care either.

Should look like this (though this is a lower class):

The last is most likely the (British) Royal Victorian Medal (could be the correspondiong order, but I doubt it). Probably a give-away for one of Edward VII's visits to his continental relatives. He, in particular, passed these out pretty lavishly (as he did other things pretty lavishly).

Very likely a minor court functionary's bar.

That's a tough one.

I always think of Sing/Singh as a Sikh name and I think that would be consistent with being a Gurkha. I found on Google that he was awarded an OPW-1 in 1944, which seems unusual and may be the genesis of your question.

I also found an interesting medal site created by a certain GMIC member. I thought I might steal the info from there, but I was unsuccessful. BTW Ed, tough loss yesterday for the Eagles. I thought they were going to win it.

I'll keep trying.

Chuck

A good Gorkha name.

Close, very close, maybe a winner. Forgot I had most of the answer up there. Oops.

Only our university president cares about OUR sports teams. I, as a triple Duke graduate, have my mind elsewhere this time of year.

Will hold off (unfairly?) declaring a winner for a bit . . . .

Ed

OK, try this:

Why is IO-16764 (16984?) Subadar Birta Sing Gurung, Bahadur, OBI, MC, 1/3rd Queen Alexandra's Own Gurkha Rifles, special and why is he especially relevant to this sub-forum (and this question)? Be as specific as possible.

Have fun.

(Extra credit if you know where his medals are. Even more extra credit if you send them along to me. )

Yessir, know that. Working on it. Have to make it a question worthy of the forum.