Ed_Haynes

I'd guess this is a fraudulently engraved HLP "stolen" medal.

Ed:

Actually, you can legally own one, and legally buy one.

It's illegal to sell (or any other manner part with it for profit including trade) one.

Dave

Technically, but this is a legal niceity lost on the ever-vigilant FBI and their affiliated sicherheit agencies. They tend to arrest the medal on the presumption that if you own it you must have bought it and so you are at least an accessory to a crime against the founding principles of the Republic. Even if you can avoid their punishment for violating their law, your medal may just vanish into their happy displays of medals they have seized from the hands of miscreants and evil-doers. The new "Stolen Valor Act" will extend this "protection" to all US medals and the self-denominated "patriots" (a.k.a. Fools on the Hill and their minions) are ramming this through the ever-pliable legislative system.

I am so glad I do not collect US medals, except for a few family pieces, for which I have no purchase receipts, so I rarely mention them.

I thought he has got one listed for $1200???

I must be missing something

No, $225 for a basic one (1st award).

Item number: 8384074119

Hahaha - talk about excessive inflation!

Oy, even Igor is cheaper!!

But I think out small circle, plus the (apparent) willingness of some to pay some serious money for rare pieces is shaking some nice pieces out of Central Asia. Will the bubble burst or will archive availability fuel the craze?

Your guess (and your money) is as good as mine.

I wouldn't alter the ribbons. These are original?

So . . .

"a" is dark blue sky,

"b" is light blue sky.

Thanks for clarifying and for SHOWING. Lovely.

That's very interesting about the first type badges having their serial numbers RAISED and apparently CAST as PART of the badge-- suggesting that each one was individually made?

It would seem that way. Very interesting indeed. The two I have show precisely that manufacturing style. But, then, what the badge commemorates mattered immensely in the early history of the MPR. More than most of that silly military stuff.

Can anybody with technical skill try "overlapping" the images transparently one on top of the other to see how much each specific one varies from another-- or is that too complicated, and requires coordination for all being the same precise size to compare together?

Would side-by-side scans do? Let us see what can be done. But I have, as yet, specimens of but two varieties. Working on it . . . . Ad interim, see below?

Ed: we have noticed that quite often the ?nickel "silver" finish on bronze-base Soviet circa 1940s badges (railways etc) seems to have "evaporated" away. The test seems to be if the nickel finish remains intact INSIDE the screw nut where it got less air up tight against the badge. I don't think they were MADE in two finishes, they have just lost one over time through age. It's not a question of being buffed or polished off either. A number of Third Reich badges also have that as a "low bid" problem.

This is precisely what I am thinking. My #2949 specimen clearly shows (eluding a clean scan image with that long screw-post) the number engraved through the silver coating down into the brass below. Whether absorbed or evaporated, the "silver" (mercury wash?) seems to have gone bye-bye.

Ed,

Have you forgot to mention J 04? There are also 2 variations of this one as listed on "the book".

This type is not serial numbered as for J 03.

Dolf

No, this one isn't here intentionally. My understanding is that this is more of a RANGER-herder (=~ "cowboy") badge than a herder (=~ "shepherd") badge. I gather this is one of the mis-identifications that we have inherited from Herfurt's somewhat clumsy pre-Battushig efforts.

Separate badge, separate series. Will put up one when I have one, but in another thread. Can someone launch us onto that one, please.

Yet I must admit I have trouble figuring out the two that Dr. B shows -- J 04 and J 04b -- is there any difference?? I know this gets arcane, but . . . ?!

But:

So . . .

. . . might we tentatively say?

J 01 - Type 1 (Mongol legend, crude construction, mirror reverse); Low = 15/High = 399

J 02b - Type 2.1 (Mongol legend, mirror reverse); Low = 32/High = 4100

J 02a - Type 2.2 (Mongol legend, flat reverse); Low = 4246/High = 4450

J 03 - Type 3 (Cyrillic legend, unnumbered)

????????????

Thanks Ed.

Same screwnut indeed, as for the few others I've seen.

I'll do some research on that mark, whatever it is.

Dolf

And my other J01 (#380) shown in post 6 above -- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5229&st=5 -- has the same screwnut, but no apparent mark. Will drag it out and re-squint.

Here's a question. I have seen the J02 mirror-backs (which I believe to be earlier than the flat-back J02s) in both silvered bronze and bronze versions (is the silver coating simply gone?) and with serial numbers at 11-o'clock (Battushig's example. #32) and at 8-o'clock (this specimen, #2949). What is happening here??

Oh . . . nice . . . the J03s are elusive!

Interesting. I just got one in (#155) with the same very crude screw back. No mark identifiable, but clearly Mongol-made. No help from the Friendly Northern Neighbor here.

40 Years of Victory over German Fascism and Japanese Militarism

B # C18.

A small badge (26 mm) with a long name.

Page 2. A 1990 award to ___???

Page 1. An inspirational slogan?

And the document, the cover.

The Glory of the Teacher

B # R13.

The Honorary Badge of the Central Committee of the Ministry of Culture and Education

B # R21.

A really pretentious name for something of incredibly shoddy construction.

And, finally, page 7. Financial considerations? Tugrik 200 per month for 1st class, and 100 for 2nd class? Don't spend it all in one place.

Page 6. 2nd class for 5 kiddies.

Page 5. The statutes. Created 1957, 1st class for 8 children.

Page 4, 1981 award with facsimilie Tsedenbal signature. Can anyone read her name?