Ed_Haynes

Fantastic groups, everyone.

I didn?t knew, Victory Medals were named. Where were they named? On the rim?

Gerd

Thanks, Gerd.

Yes, named on the rim. Most British WWI medals are named and, when to Indians (and South Africans and Auistralians) most WWII medals as well. This adds much to the interest. Much like Soviet awards, once you crack the numbering code.

Not mine, but a friend is letting me post this for him:

12101 Sepoy Shera Rawat, Ajmer Regiment

1. War Medal: 12101 Sep. Sep. Shera Rawat, Ajmer R.

2. India Service Medal: 12101 Sep. Sep. Shera Rawat, Ajmer R.

3. Efficiency Medal: Sepoy Shera. 11-4 Bombay Grs., I.T.F.

The title of the 1st Territorial Battalion Merwara Infantry which was raised on 11th March 1922 was changed to 11th Battalion 4th Bombay Grenediers in 1923. On 15th September 1941 the title once again changed, this time to 26th (Garrison) Battalion 4th Bombay Grenadiers. Finally on 1st July 1942 this battalion was reconstituted as the 1st Battalion the Ajmer Regiment. The Battalion was disbanded on 30th August 1946.

War Services:

Sep 1939 - (?) Port defence duties in Bombay

Jul 1942 ? Aug 1943. Bombay

Aug 1943 ? Sep 1944. Madras

Sep 1944 ? Sep 1945. Bannu Brigade, Waziristan

Sep 1945 ? Aug 1946. Wana Brigade, Waziristan

These war services confirm that Shera was not entitled to any other medals.

Not mine, but a friend is letting me post this for him:

Resaldar Sayad Ranuk Ali, 1st Bengal Lancers

~ China 1900: 1334 Dfdr: Mir Raunak Ali. 1st. Bengal Lcrs.

~ 1914-15 Star: Resdr. Raunak Ali Khan, 1/Lancers

~ BWM: Ressdr. Sayad Raunak Ali. 1 Lcrs.

~ VM: Ressdr. Sayad Raunak Ali. 1 Lcrs.

~ Coronation 1902: Un-named as issued

~ DD 1911: Un-named as issued

388463 Major (QGO) Rukman Limbu, MBE, 1/7th Gurkha Rifles

enlisted 4 December 1925, Quetta

Lance/Naik 1932

Naik September 1938

Subadar-Major after 1948

1954 MBE

retired on pension 1955, Major (QGO)

died 30 December 1975

1- The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, 2nd type, member

2- Burma Star - unnamed

3- The War Medal, 1939-45 - unnamed

4- The India Service Medal, 1939-45 - unnamed

5- The General Service Medal, 1918-64, George VI (4th obverse, 1949-52) - MALAYA, MiD leaf - MAJOR. RUKMAN LIMBU. 7 G.R.

6- Elizabeth II Coronation Medal, 1953 - unnamed (he was senior GCO of 7 GR in GR Contingent at London for the coronation)

7- Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. George VI, 2nd type - REGULAR ARMY - 388463 CAPT. (KGO). RUKUMAN LIMBU. 7 G.R.

8- The Indian Independence Medal, 1947 - 388463 SUB BAM RUKMAN LIMBU. G.R.

The medals are as worn, complete with the most odd "singleton" Burma Star and no 1939-45 Star.

While I usually ignore groups and medals to Gorkhas that stayed in Brfitish service, this one "sought me out".

1243 Sowar Murlidhar, 1st Bombay Lancers

1- India General Service Medal, 1854-95 - BURMA 1885-7, BURMA 1887-89 - 1243 Sowar Murlidhar 1st Bo. Lcrs.

The regiment's first overseas service was in summer 1878, when they were sent to sent to Malta and Cyprus. Their second overseas for service was in Burma, from 1885

2- Queen's Sudan Medal, 1896-99 - 1243 SOWAR MURLIDHAR. 1/ BOM: LAN:

Engraved in sloping capitals. Gaylor: "Their third spell of [operational] service abroad was a brief stay at Suakin on the Red Sea in 1896 when, as the 1st Bombay Lancers -- in consequence of the issue of the lance -- they formed part of a mixed cavalry brigade sent out from India." Service in Brigadier-General Egerton's force at Suakin, 30 March 1896 to 23 September 1896.

3- Egypt: Khedive's Sudan Medal, 1896-1908 - 1243 Sowar Murlidhar 1st Bo: Lcrs.

947 Sepoy Gurdit Singh, 36th Sikh Infantry

1- The India Medal, 1895 - Victoria - 947 SEPOY GURDIT SINGH 36 SIKHS

2- Africa General Service Medal - Edward VII - B. C. A. 1899-1900 - 947 SEPOY GURDITT SINGH. 36th SIKH INFTY."

1257 Farrier-Major William Vaz, 31st Lancers

An interesting partial group that raises many questions.

1- British War Medal - named "1257 FAR-MAJ. W. VAZ, 31 LRS.""

2- Indian Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal, Edward VII - named "1257 Sowar William Vaz, 31st D. of C.O. Lcrs"

97299 Carpenter Kesar Singh, Inland Water Transport

1- British War Medal - 97299 CARP. KESAR SINGH, I. W. T.

2- Victory Medal - 97299 CARP. KESAR SINGH, I. W. T.

Again, not a big deal for our cousins who do medals to Brits, but nice enough for collectors of medals to Indians?

Clerk J. G. Menzes, Royal Indian Marine

1- British War Medal - CLK. J. G. MENZIES, R.I.M.

2- Victory Medal - CLK. J. G. MENZIES, R.I.M.

Not rare, perhaps, but uncommon enough for me to be very happy with this recent acquisition.

I've put up a number of groups that could have gone here in

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2331&st=20

and

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2400

and I'd rather not double-post. Let me rummage about and add a few new ones here. Unfortunately, so many of my groups are as yet unribboned, unmounted, and I hate posting "naked medals" as they might offend someone.

I'd vote for a "5596". Can you do a BIG scan of just the number?

I am, frankly, amazed at the number of "bring-back" medals that are on fantasy ribbons. Of the ones shown in Greg's first post, only one is correctly ribboned (top row, #2, the Nut Qami al-Isyian fi al-Shimal / Medal for Crushing the Northern Rebellion).

It is not clear, however, what two of them are. Could I see a detailed scan of: top row, #1, and second row, #3, please. Thanks!

Top row:

1- ???

2- Nut Qami al-Isyian fi al-Shimal / Medal for Crushing the Northern Rebellion - RIBBON CORRECT!!!

3- Nut al-Taawin / Medal of Cooperation, 1967-73, 2nd (?) class

4- Nut Herb Filistin 1948-49 / Medal for the Palestine War, 1948-49

5- Iraqi Army Golden Jubilee, 1921-1971, 3rd (?) class

Second row:

1- Nut al-Salam / Medal for Peace, 1970, 3rd (?) class

2- Nut al-Khidmat al-Awal / General Service Medal, 1959

3- ???

4- Nut Thurath 17 Tamuz / Medal for the 14 July Revolution, 1958

5- Nut al-Inqath / Rescue Medal, 1954

Yes,a lovely group. The Red Banner makes it an OUTSTANDING group!

Much to think about, thanks. These are the kinds of broader issues that we need to be considering.

Maybe, Tony. Maybe.

But they all lie in the wider universe of late-Imperial military long service awards. Not sure you can understand them in artificial isolation? Dunno.

The MSM is, of course, much more complex (and interesting) and arguably deserves separate attention.

Ed

Were the 15th Sikhs there, or was your man attached to another unit or to a British officer ? One hads heard, for example, of two 5 or 6 bar QSA's to Indians: both were orderlies for "Bobs Bahadur" (General Roberts).

Good questions. I have not checked the Ashanti rolls in London, though they usually cheerfully ignore Indians in Indian Army units, listing only Europeans in those regiments. The Indian rolls, if they survived the British bonfires of 1947 and post-1947 office cleaning, would be in New Delhi, but in the MoD not National Archives, alas. I doubt Hazara Singh would have been "attached" to any gora officer, for small Indian Army detachments routinely wound up in many places where they were not "officially" present. "Odd men" abound.

The parallel question of QSAs and KSAs to Indians is very complex and a friend is trying in disentangle the records on these, though it gets all tied up in the decisions which had Indian revenues pay for the South African adventure, while excluding Indian troops from service there. This issue is strange controversial among many British these days, and I'd rather not go into it here.

And, to show the obverse/reverse a GVI MSM - OK, an MSM, but all that changes on reverse of the LSGC is the legend.

Part 3. (Ignoring here the post-Independence medals.)

Part 2.

And the Indian MSM and LSGC series, part one.

A really nice medal. I have shown one in a group already, to "1175 Havildar Nawaz, 127th Princess of Wales's Own Baluch Light Infantry", at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2400&st=9 -- here's another, to "309 Rifleman Indar Singh, 1st Uganda Rifles". (RIBBON BACKWARDS - oops. )

To add mine, incredibly rare to the Indian Army. This is the only one I've seen in 30+ years. Few Indians served in West Africa, though many in East and Central Africa. Named "3297 SEPOY HAZARA SINGH. 15TH SIKHS".

Just to add to Tony's show-and-tell, the "INDIA" LSGCs, awarded only to natives (of the British Isles). Indians received a different design of the LSGCand MSM (except for the 1888-89 period, when they received Imperial designs).

The GV - "SJT. J. BROWN, I.S.C."

The GVI - "S-SGT. J. N. STARK, I A O C"

I love puzzles. Let's all dig in sources . . .

I believe the I.T.F. was instituted to be the Indian equivalent to the A.F.I., and as with the British Territorials they were battalions of the regular regiments. Originally they were all the 11th Bn. (to leave room for wartime raisings) but I believe that 1939-45 some regiments raised a 12th I.T.F. Bn. I need to check my reference sources. I think Donovan Jackson has some information.

John Gaylor's book treats this in some detail, Michael. There are some efforts at serious research now underway to fill in the gaps left by Gaylor.