Ed_Haynes

It is a real shame the Brits chose (for reasons of speed of issue not economy) not to name their WWII medals. Not only does this limit the collecting and research interest, but opens the way for enterprising bandits to "marry" boxes, certificates, and medals, or even just to fake paperwork outright to go with invented groups. How much proof is enough? Short of provenance -- direct from the veteran or his family -- what can we trust? How can we move beyond "attributed" (aand what is that word worth)?

This looks like a European invention (of which there were many).

Not in my custody (alas), but I gained permission from the current custodian to share this beauty here.

Jemadar Rattan Singh, 3rd Skinner's Horse

Subadar Rur Singh, 32nd Sikh Pioneers

1- Indian Distinguished Service Medal, Edward VII - Subdr Rur Singh 32d Sikh Pioneers

2- India General Service Medal, 1854 - HAZARA 1891, SIKKIM 1888 - 2396 Sepoy Rur Singh 32d Bl Infy

3- India Medal 1895 - WAZIRISTAN 1901-2, RELIEF OF CHITRAL 1895 - 2396 Havdr Rur Singh 32nd Bl Infy

4- Tibet Medal - GYANTSE - Subdr Rur Singh 32nd Sikh Pioneers

5- India General Service Medal, 1908 - George V, 1st variety - ABOR 1911 - Subadar Rur Singh 32nd Sikh Pioneers

Does the Khedive of Egypt count?

1646 Sowar Jamal Khan, 1st Bombay Lancers

1- Queen's Sudan Medal, 1896-98 - Sowar Jamal Khan, 1st Bombay Lancers

Gaylor: "Their third spell of [operational] service abroad was a brief stay at Suakin on the Red Sea in 1896 when, as the 1st Bombay Lancers -- in consequence of the issue of the lance -- they formed part of a mixed cavalry brigade sent out from India." Service in Brigadier-General Egerton's force at Suakin, 30 March 1896 to 23 September 1896.

2- China War Medal 1900 - Sowar Jamal Khan, 1st Bombay Lancers

They were not regimentally present in China but small detachments were sent to reinforce other units.

3- Africa General Service Medal, 1902-1956, Edward VII issue - SOMALILAND 1902-04 - Sowar Jamal Khan, 1st Bombay Lancers

They were not regimentally present in Somaliland but small detachments were sent to reinforce other units.

4- Egypt: Khedive's Sudan Medal, 1896-1908 - Sowar Jamal Khan, 1st Bombay Lancers

78 Jemadar Abdur Rahman Khan, Jeypore Imperial Service Transport Corps

1- Delhi Durbar 1903, silver - unnamed

Shown in the roll for the Delhi Durbar 1903 medal (p. 90) as "Abdul Rahman Khan, Duffadar - Jaipur Imperial Service Transport Corps". The silver medal was awarded some 2567 times.

2- Delhi Durbar 1911, silver - unnamed

Shown in the ISF roll for the Delhi Durbar 1911 medal (p. 161) as "78 Jemadar Abdur Rahman Khan", Jaipur Imperial Service Transport Corps. The silver medal was awarded some 30,000 times.

3- India Medal, 1895-1902, Victoria - RELIEF OF CHITRAL 1895, PUNJAB FRONTIER 1897-98, SAMANA 1897, TIRAH 1897-98 - 78 Jamdr. Abdur Rahman Khan. Jeypore I.S.T. Corps

This was the unit's first imperial service.

Post here groups you have not that cost you three sovereigns, but that include the images of three (or more) British rulers.

BARELY WWII, but still an interesting group.

3162 Group Captain H. S. Monga, Indian Air Force

Mounting a bit ragged, but a long and impressive (and heavy) group.

IAF List, July 1956:

Name- Monga, Harbans Singh

Rank - Flight Lt

Number - 3162 (General Duties Branch)

Date of Birth - 15-June-1923

Date of Commission - 25-June-1945

Date of Subst Rank of Flt Lt - 25-June-1950

Remarks - Permanent Commission

1- The General Service Medal, 1947 - JAMMU AND KASHMIR 1947-48 - 3162 FG. OFF. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

2- Samar Seva Star, 1965 - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

3- Poorvi Star, 1971 - missing, ribbon only

4- Paschimi Star, 1971 - missing, ribbon only

5- Raksha Medal, 1965 - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

6- Sangram Medal, 1971 - missing, ribbon only

7- Sainya Seva Medal - Himalaya - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

8- Videsh Seva Medal - Nepal - 3162 WG. CDR. H. S. MANGA, I. A. F.

9- The Indian Independence Medal, 1947 - 3162 FG. OFFR. H. S. MONGA, R.I.A.F.

10- 25th Independence Anniversary - missing, ribbon only

11- Twenty Years Long Service Medal - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

12- Nine Years Long Service Medal - 3162 GP. CAPT. H. S. MONGA, I. A. F.

13- The War Medal, 1939-45 - IND/3162 FLT/LT. H. S. MONGA, R. I. A. F.

C-9436 Subadar-Major Meneha Singh, Army Service Corps (Motorised Transport)

There is MUCH variability in the spelling of his name!

WWII service, then out?

enrolled 9 January 1959 (re-enrolled?)

Naib Subadar 9 January 1959 (same day as enrollment)

Subadar 1 March 1964

Acting Subadar-Major 1 January 1968

1- Samar Seva Star, 1965 - JC-6436 SUB MECHANGA SINGH ASC(MT)

2- Raksha Medal, 1965 - JC9436_MEHNA SINGH ASC(MT)

3- Sangram Medal, 1971 - unnamed

4- 25th Independence Anniversary Medal, 1972 - ZJC9436 SUB. MAJ. MEHENGA SINGH ASC(MT)

5- The Indian Independence Medal, 1947 - MTN-940217 HAV MAMNGA SINGH, ASC(MT)

6- Twenty Years Long Service Medal - JC-9436 SUB-MAJ MENEHA SINGH, ASC(MT)

7- Nine Years Long Service Medal - ribbon only

8- 1939-45 Star - MTN/940217 C.Q.M. HAV. MEHNGA SINGH, RIASC (MT)

9- Burma Star - MTN-940217 C.Q.M. HAV. MEHNGA SINGH, RIASC (MT)

10- The War Medal, 1939-45 - MTN 940217 C.Q.M. HAV.MEHNGA SINGH RIASC(MT)

11- The India Service Medal, 1939-45 - unnamed

95579 Rifleman Ujir Mall, 2/9th Gurkha Rifles

1- The Indian Independence Medal, 1947 - 96579 RFN. UJIR MALL, 9 G.R.

2- 1939-45 Star - 95579 RFN. UJIR MALL, 9 G.R.

3- Pacific Star - 95779 RFN. UJIRMALL, 9 G. R.

4- The War Medal, 1939-45 - 95579 RFN. UJIRMALL, 9 G.R.

Shown as missing in the POW rolls (but with regt. # 95379). Obviously a POW.

Regiment reported to have gone only about 10% INA.

A Gorkha who fought in the Malaya and Singapore Campaign of 1941-42 and ended up a POW after fall of Singapore in February 1942.

One of my favourite WWI groups, shown elsewhere on forum (sorry), but I'll share it here as well.

Captain Sir Parushuramrao Ramachandrarao ?Bhav Sahib? Patwardhan, K.C.I.E., Chief of Jamkhandi

1- 1914-15 Star - CAPT. SIR P.B. PATWARDHAN K.C.I.E. CHIEF OF JAMKHANDI.

2- British War Medal - CAPT. SIR P. B. PATWARDHAN. CH. OF JAMKHANDI

3- Victory Medal - CAPT. SIR P. RAMCHANDRARAV, CHIEF OF JAMKHANDI.

4- Durbar 1911 - unnamed

Sir Meherban PARASHURAM RAO RAMCHANDRA RAO I [DHAJISAHEB] PATWARDHAN 1897/1924, adopted from the Chinchanikar branch of the Patwardhan family, Chief of Jamkhandi, born 1883, succeeded 1897, installed 4th June 1903, K.C.I.E. [cr.1913], took active part in France in 1915, during WW1, in 1918 he was granted a 9-gun salute and made Hon. Captain in the British Army, he as a supervisor of Red Cross in the Mesopotamia, married 1stly 1900 Rama Bai Raste, daughter of Bala Sahib Raste, from the village of Vai, died 1st October 1907, married 2ndly 12th June 1913 Damle, daughter of Damle of Pune and had issue, 1 son and 1 daughter. He died 25th February 1924 (by being crushed under the feet of an angry elephant).

Obviously on original mounting.

Here's another Pakistani WWII "group" (as Pakistan didn't name their WWII medals -- unlike India -- "groups" are heavily faked). Only the independence medal is named, but I have a good "feel" about this "group".

799 FLT. CDT. SHAKIR HUSSAIN AIR H. QRS.

1- War Medal 1965

2- Independence Medal

3- Republic Medal

4- WWII War Medal

5- Indian Service Medal

Only the Indepndence Medal named, as shown above. Original ragged mount.

Jubilee Medal "40 Years of Victory over Nazis"

Established 1985.

Jubilee Medal "30 Years of Socialist Revolution in Bulgaria"

Established 1974.

Order of Labor, var. 2, class 1, 2, 3

1977-89 variety

Instituted on 21 June 1945. Given to workers, farmers, leaders of work teams, scientists, and artists for their excellent work and fulfillment of work plans, for high achievement, innovations, and organization.

People's Order of Labor, var. 1, classes 1, 2, 3

1945-77 variety.

Instituted on 21 June 1945. Given to workers, farmers, leaders of work teams, scientists, and artists for their excellent work and fulfillment of work plans, for high achievement, innovations, and organization.

(Note the reversal of the direction of ribbon-wrap on 3rd class?)

Order of the Red Banner of Labor

Founded 13 December 1950.

Awarded for scientific, cultural, or public contributions to the nation.

Yes, according to the 1978 order of wearing, these were extremely high, ahead of the generic Ehrentitle series:

Karl-Mark-Orden

Held der DDR

Held der Arbeit

Stern der Volkerfreundschaft

Vaterlandischer Verdienstorden

Banner der Arbeit

Scharnhorst-Orden

Fur Verdienst um Volk und Vaterland

Bewaffenden Kampfen 1918-23

Kampfer gegen den Faschismus 1933-45

Hans Beimler

Clara Zetkin

etc.

(Bartel 3rd ed, p. 174)

According to :

Orders and Medals of North Korea - International Electronic Phaleristic Encyclopedia -

Lukasz Gaszewski

http://faculty.winthrop.edu/haynese/medals...rea/N_Korea.htm

The two stars you mentioned are the Kim Il Sung order.

Ch.

Oh. I had forgotten about that site. Am I embarassed!!!!!!!!

Ed - Excellent! I've seen these medals in books, but have never seen one up close. Kevin

Thanks, Kevin. I was recently underbidder -- -- on Ewald Munschke's documented and spanged one (but not underbidder on all his medals -- watch a space near this one).

Medal for the Fighters against Fascism, 1933-45 / Medaille f?r K?mpfer gegen Faschismus 1933-45

Just to add a few of my favourites.

I have some up already over on the Spanish Civil War volunteers thread -- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1245 -- and will be making some additions there real soon now.

Medal for the Participants in the Armed Struggle of the German Working Classes, 1918-23 / Medaille f?r die Teilnahme an den bewaffneten K?mpfen der deutschen Arbeiterklasse 1918-23

No one else has any? No one cares?

Maybe just the two of us, Darrell? Non-German stuff has limited audience?

While I'm sensitive to flooding the forum (and the thread) with too much South Asian stuff, I'll feed the hungry thread when I can get some scans done.

Loverly.

Speaking for myself, it would be of much interest. An amazing career, it seems?