Ed_Haynes

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Just to complete the "record" (and hope someone is willing to add more):

Close up on EK

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Having finally (FINALLY) brought this group home for detailed scanning, I may as well add it here. Andreas will recognise it.

See also: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2328

Marketing isn't Lancer's strong suit (neither is edition or quality of produiction). I think the bookshop on the Bharat Rakshak site has some of their books for sale. Most were done in TINY print runs, so abebooks may be the sole source.

Fascinating stuff, but I am torn:

1- We should post as much information as possible, for knowledge is power, and like fertilizer needs to be spread about to do any good. We need to identify and catch the scoundrels (other words come to mind) whose nefarious actions promise to poison the well for this generation and all collecting generations to come.

2- By saying how they have done it wrong, how we catch on to them, we are merely educating these crooks so they'll do it better next time.

I believe both. And am confused.

US medals are not named (usually). Some decorations are, but with every permutation of naming ranging from the official to the neighborhood jeweler. Some early campaign medals are numbered and this opens up marvelous new ways to spend research time.

If I were going to start collecting US groups with good pedigrees, I'd see no better place to start than in the auctions held by Floyd, Johnson, and Paine (now FJP Auctions). See: http://www.fjpauctions.com/

So you get paid to collect and research medals and orders?!?!?

Some people have it all!!!

Paul

How I wish! No such luck. Have just been trying to conjoin "job" and "hobby" in recent years. Not sure any one buys it, but 'tis fun.

Get there as often as humanly possible. Plan a trip in December (briefly) and then a longer and more useful -- though hotter -- time this summer.

'Tis my field of academic specialisation (and medal collecting), after all.

Let me check Paul. Most numbers quoted by "Third Reich" style sources are rubbish. I hope to be going through their debriefing reports from when they became British POWs at war's end, this summer in Delhi.

Why are the Manx issuing coins with an American decoration illustrated by a WW2 Pacific battle scene of U.S. Marines throwing lit sticks of dynamite rather than hand grenades?

Ooooog!

Are there MORE?

I think they do it because they can sell coins like this and make money. What is, after all, the major Manx source of foreign exchange? Isn't it philately and numismatics?

Thanks, Rick. Enquiring minds (and inquiring ones too) are at peace.

An interesting thread . . . on something about which Inknown absolutely nothing.

Years ago, not even sur ehow, I acquired a pair of shoulderboards. Have always assumed they were "German", but never knew. If I never ask, I'll never know, I guess.

Here they are. As I say, I have no clue. (Not the world's best scan, sorry.)

Rick: All sorts of research. Ranging from the narrow, roll- and archive-based digging on this individual and his service (though rolls for Indian civilians at Lucknow are fragmentary, in all senses of that word) to wider "academic" stuff. Some rolls are in London, some in Delhi, some eaten by white ants.

Bob: How rare is Mutiny for defence of Lucknow? Very. The official numbers suggest that, among the original defenders (which I suspect Sirdar Peeroo to have been), there were 1,538 soldiers and 160 civilians, though I suspect those numbers are heavily biased toward Europeans and ignore Indians. Yet, I cannot imagine that, in the heady revolutionary climate of June-November 1857 there were very many Indian civilians who chose to ally themselves with the discredited and crumbling goras -- it was hard enough for Indians in the army to remain "loyal" and would usually net them and eventuial Order of Merit. Maybe poor Peeroo just got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, maybe there is another tale to tell. That, of course, is the interest in these things, not just chunks of silver and silk with a big price tag, but all that survives of a man and a moment. This, of course, is why we collect and study these silly things.

And thanks for the visits and the comments. I know this is pretty exotic stuff for most of the bruderschaft here, but . . . ?

Thanks, Chris!

Actually, in today's corporatized universities, tenure and promotion are more about teaching-teaching-teaching (assembly line work and producing a body-count) and personal loyalty to the burgeoning administrations. At most universities, except the very best, scholarship really matters little (in teh sciences, you need to get grants, but thos emean money for the university). And nothing that Folks Like Us do matters AT ALL. Trust me. (Being considered for promotion even as I write.)

Back to medals . . . .

Ed, talk to a university employed historian about the importance of publishing.

I am one of them. And we make no money from our publications.

Important, sure. Money-making, what a joke. Unless you write a mass-market textbook, but I am talking about scholarship here.

Any historian who thinks they can make money off their publishing, I have some beach-front property in Iowa to sell them.

Much wisdom, Rick. Thank you.

While, technically, there could be one more medal listed here (the medal for the Second China War was also paid for out of East India Company revenues), the "Indian" component of the tale of early Indian awards ends here.

I hope it hasn't been too boring.

If you want "the rest of the story", see:

http://faculty.winthrop.edu/haynese/OMSA05.pdf

(This was to have been presented as a seminar at this year's OMSA but got unprofessionally "cut" at the final moment. Color me unhappy, and much more.)

And, if you aren't bored entirely to tears, drop in over at: http://sagongs.ipbhost.com/

Indian Mutiny Medal, 1857-58

The history of the Honourable East India Company and its phaleristic history in India came to an end in May 1857 as the complex rebellion of 1857 erupted across northern India. Far more than a military "mutiny" and perhaps falling short of the "First Indian War of Independence", these events gave birth to the finalmedal issued in the name of and (more importantly) paid for by the East India Company. The Mutiny Medal was issued without clasp and with five clasps.

This medal, for the famous defence of Lucknow, is named to "Sirdar Peeroo, Lucknow Garrison". Most likely an Indian civilian in the defending garrison. Much research looms.

India Medal, 1854

The classic pattern would culminate in the second India general service medal series, the famous India Medal, 1854. While the first two clasps (Pegu and Persia) were for services outside India, the medal became identified with service on both frontiers. It would continue longer in the East India Company and would not be replaced until 1895, after a lifespan of 41 years and 24 clasps.

This specimen, for Pegu, is named to "Sepoy Chyoung (2nd) Arracan Local Battn".