Ed_Haynes

Yes, I know Brunei is not part of Malaysia, but it is right next door. Ghurka fans will remember that they had had a Ghurkha battalion for years.

Bet this one will bring Ed out of his shell (if his eyes haven't glazed over.)

Lovely lovely stuff, and they still hire Gorkhas in Brunei, I think. Have just been drooing!!

Lovely lovely things, Hugh.

Advance apologies for stupidity and illiteracy, but what is this?

Thanks for this, Rick. And, from personal experience, I know what a total DRAG translation is. I had thought -- for a while -- that a had a couple of off-forum translators (one for pay, for for meals and booze) engaged, but both have evaporated. When I get research on my own, I pay (and wait and wait and . . .) for translations, but recent acquisitions have come from a good forum friend with good Russian (and I have almost NONE). Sorry. And ongoing thanks.

When you need HIndi or Urdu ytrabslations, you know who to call . . . Hindi-Busters?!

hi ed, am up for this. i have a few 1915 star & victroy medals to the same men. and about 100 singles victory medals to indians troops. this is long over due paul

If you arem't signed up over at SAGongs, please do so (and let me know so I can get you up and running ASAP).

It's "just" Routine Correspondence. The families would/should have been notified at the time. This is internal corresspondence just like purchase orders for furniture or more boxes of paper clips. The file photos, for instance, were apparently intended to catch "traitors" if a manhunt was ever needed. There were copies at EVERY level of the military bureaucracy. (What earthly good was a 1947 photo that was sitting in a file cabinet for a retiree in 1986? )

Presumably tons and tons and tons of letters about pension applications, disability certificates, and the like went straight into the trash disposal system over there. These are/were unwanted LOCAL records. It (literally) piles up.

My own town, for instance, still has ledger books for 1860s dog licenses. I am absolutely CERTAIN somebody, somewhere Out There could produce a fascinating Ph.D. thesis on Mid 19th Century Pet Keeping. But otherwise... it takes up SPACE.

Actually, that would be an interesting dissertation.

However, the real problems are two: (a) what becomes of records when "regime change" takes place (usually they get trashed) and (b) what becomes of records when they are left in working offices that have no need for them and only so much space in which to work (usually they get trashed). And the archives are usually so poorly funded that they cannot deal with what they have (especially if people expect the archivists to do their research for them!).

Acctually the tale of the Defence Medal is a very complex one and the qualifications became more and more intricate and confusing (then, as now) as it expanded beyiond its original conception as the "Defence of Britain Medal" (essentially, a "Blitz Medal").

Makes sense, William. Thanks.

A good question. For a medal that ought to be pretty uncommon, there do seem to be a lot of them about?

As he seems to be wearing a mourning armband, might we date this photo from shortly after his father's death (11 September 2006)?

The problem lies in that difficult chasm between "deserving" something and actually being "awarded" it. Given the numbers involved, I am amazed the bureaucrats (in- or out-of-uniform) got ANYTHING right in those chaotic post-war years. Until service records become available, we may never be sure what was "awarded" and what was "self-awarded".

Those quirky "___ Star without 1939-45 Star" always look odd to me and the miust have done so in 1947 as well?

Nice!! :envy:

Top one? Order of the 22nd of June.

See:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14992&st=5

http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=140

So I can laugh my a$$ off at the people who told me that I was wasting my money on this stuff as it would never be worth anything.

Especially if you happen to be married to them?

There is also an OMSA monograph on the same subject. Their online store is, unfortunately, out of order at the moment.

Amazing! Almost worth getting teh research on his awards just to read the recomemndations.

If looking brainlessly at these figures, it means that someone having invested in single OG1s would have had a better return

Marc

If investement were the goal, perhaps.

The biggest blow came when the Pakistani military chat forum evaporated last January. It was amazing: lots odf inside gossip. I suspect it went down after they began discussing which senior officer was committing adultry and with whom.

It is my understanding that that site was mashed by the army on claims of compromises to 'national security'. I do not believe the posters were 'disappeared' though.

Yup-

I would suspect that the manufacturers are still around and perhaps the contract records are stuck away in some "1992 paid receipts" file somewhere.

Perhaps Lorenzo will find out who made these.

By the way, Ed did you retire? If so, I have a present for thee.

The whole question of the preservation of pre-invasion Iraqi records is a very difficult one, and specialiusts in the area have been trying to find out whether any pre-invasion records survive (though the Afghan situation is significantly worse than the Iraqi one). While no straight answers have emerged from the occupation authorities (is this in any way surprising), it seems that most government records were destroyed or looted or merely trashed by the occupation forces (though you might find some among the other Iraqi plunder on e$cam?). We have to remember that the only reason we have extensive and well-organized archives from the Third Reich was the plan to have war crimes trials; there was no such plan for trials in Iraq, just plans for executions. Far beyond our narrow phaleristic interests, this is a tragedy for future scholars attempting to write any history of Iraq in the second half of the 20th century. (Not to discuss the looting of museums and so on.) But, then, invaders and occupiers have never been good friends to history.

Me? Yes, retired. Making the transition to full time research and writing, which is nice, and to a much-reduced income, which isn't nice.

Nice image! Thanks for preserving it. So much neat stuff on the web tends to blow away in any stiff breeze.

Outstanding medal! Thanks for posting it! (It would look good on the OMSA site too).

Too bad about the sanctions, but one good thing about the invasion, everyone gets to eat now and far fewer have died than the pro-Sadaamites claimed were killed by the UN sanctions (I remember leftie University Professors howling about 500,000 starved to death).

Sorry Ed-I couldn't resist a jab.

Actually it was closer to 1.2 million. But this is .

Relevant to us is the fact that the quality of Iraqi medals collapsed during this period, reghardless of where they were manufactured. For example, the ugly thick plastic ribbons for the gallantry medal.

To all:

To frame it in another way:

- Price for a Full Cavalier/Knight set in January 1998 - $3,500.00

- Price for a Full Cavalier/Knight set in October 2007 - $21,000.00

- Price for a single Order of Glory 1st Class in June 2000 - $1,570.00

- Price for a single Order of Glory 1st Class in July 2008 - $17,500.00

Regards,

slava1stclass

Thanks. I guess.

It does put things in focus, doesn't it.

A rather . . . well . . . disturbing . . . set of exchanges here.

"Gentlemen," gentlemen, "Gentlemen".

Thanks, EJ, I shall (quite happily) add images or items sourced from the pre-occupation period. Much to do here.

From what I have seen, very intersting. After GW II, these were the best Iraq could produce under total sanctions. The children they were to teach were dying in the streets from simple infections, after all.

Yes, forcing names inteligently over into English is always "trisksy". But the original (in this case, Korean) name needs to be preserved (in both script and transliteration).