Ed_Haynes

Absolutely right. Many afgani awards were produced in Soviet Union......

Interesting. What evidence do you have for this?

At least Mongolia never joined the Warsaw Pact (or NATO or . . . ).

No the PDR Afghan awards were of an independent country, less occupied than Iraq or Afghanistan or . . . are today (the PDRA government predated the Soviet invasion). I have never seen any marked as having been made in the USSR, but that doesn't mean much. I'd guess they are from another friendly country.

See the various Afghan threads here.

Soviet Second World War Veteran Badges by Paul J. Schmitt.

Available from The Author.

Yes, these things were awarded 60+ years ago, can we not wait 3+ years for research to come back (OK, we hope not, but ...) and to spend 70% of the money for the HISTORY that we spent for the disembodied THING? Any RB "3", long service or not, must have been awarded to someone with a STORY that wants/needs telling. Please, Christian, we have the simple collective DUTY to see that story told, if at all possible. Start the wheels moving while the wheels can still move, please. The day may come when . . .

God, in Her Infinite Wisdom, gave us rice and beans to eat while we were paying and waiting for phaleristic research . . . ? (And families MUST understand this much, right?)

Personally:

One researcher (the normal one) has been quite silent and distracted (though I do owe him an e-mail . . . oops).

One researcher can only function from documented military singles or groups, which cuts out most of what I have left hanging unresearched.

One researcher has just given up on the whole research business out of painful frustration with the Russian end of things.

Not exactly happy days. And I guess the general forum silence shows that?

Comrades Lenin and Stalin do not answer prayers . . . well, ONE of them might . . . but . . . .

So . . . avoid e$cam???

While it may well be fake, there is no doubt (at all) as to how UGLY it is.

Ahhhh . . . ???? Maybe, maybe . . . ????

Right. Interesting. So far as I know, no Soviet (or Warsaw Pact?) use of miniatures. Who then???

Do you have reason to believe that these are "his"? And not just a replica group (easy enough to assemble).

And, if they are "his", that they are legal under international laws and treaties on war plunder?

Still, pretty things . . .

Top two, Kuwait - Military Service Medal, 3rd and 2nd classes.

Bottom one, Iraq - Supreme Worthiness Medal, 1992-93 / Nut al-Istihqaq al-?Aali, 1992-93.

Something is obvlously wrong in the online dictionaries or Google-babble programs that do translations . . . .

I so often think of the old Monty Python learning Hungrarian skit . . . .

Now about all those Mongolian "combat" decorations that were for decades of long service....

Shall be sitting down with Bat in June and forcing him (at the point of a bottle of Chengis Khan vodka) to traslate "Baildaani gav'yaany ulaan tugiin odon" (etc.) 100% accurately! And to fix this in the 2nd edition. What the original says -- whether we like it or not -- is the name of the decoration or medal.

We just need the standard (canonical) English-language references to GET IT RIGHT and include the original (one of the great faults of McD & S). Until such books are written, it is hard -- well non-productive anyway -- to kvetch too much.

But this "emission" business is another linguistic mess entirely!!!!!!!!!!!!

. . . an altered Third Emission....

Oh, moan, this non-word "emission" again. From which orifice was it "emitted"??

My thoughts exactly, Bob. And this documented specimen has been noted. Battushig 2nd edition will be trying to do something systematic with numbers and dates, but by then the official regsiters should be available anyway.

They are still being awarded, so where lies the line . . . ???

(Though this may be changing.)

Nice. Did it come with research?

Especially crazy price if numbered beyond the likely range of awarded pieces.

Well Ed, now you have to put your "salesman" skills to work. Point out to those in Ulanbaatar that one can ask whatever one wants... that doesn't mean it will sell. Also, things have an interesting way of vanishing from this website only to re-appear months later for sale again....

True, true. Most of the UB dealers have multiple Sukhbaatars in stock, but are sitting on them, not interested in selling, until prices go up even MORE. Shall be able to report in more detail this June.

I didn't join the Mongolia collecting community until 2005 or so if I recall correctly and, to be honest, would think that for 1998 those prices are actually expensive!

True. It is my sense that they'd have been under $100 in Ulanbaatar in those days (today, UB dealers show you color printouts of Igor's website to establish their prices!).

Looking through one of Igor's old paper lists (August 1998, not THAT long ago!):

screwback

- USD 1,200, number not given

pinback

- USD 985, nr 1600

Nice. How is the remainder of the museum? It is now surely on my list should I ever make it to Khartoum.

There may be some oddities in these groups, but I agree with Christian and don't see much reson for shrill and panic-ridden concern. Frankly, I prefer the clumsily altered for wear from ribbons awards over those altered and then "restored" (= faked back) to screwback condition. I see these randomly rigged setups as part of any group's character. Those serial numbers would require close and careful attention, though.

Not as if any of us mere mortals can afford such things anyway.

Just for comparison, I happened to be looking through one of Igor's old (paper) catalogues last night, from August 1998 (not THAT long ago!?). An interesting group stood out:

Kutuzov 1

Khmelnitsky 2

Suvorov 2

two Lenins

4 Red banners (missing his "2", but with the original, "3" and "4")

plus medals and research

A broken group, but nice. For what was then an astronomical $16,500. What would this group be today?? I tremble to wonder . . .

There were also two Glory 1/2/3 sets, $4,600 and $3,850 and a Glory 1 single at $2,400. Where DID I park that time machine . . . ???

While Igor is first and foremost a businessman, he sees selling fakes and giving unprofessional service as bad business. While occasional fakes passed through his hands in the Old Days, he has learned enough to avoid these. And he is right, as the shoddy performance and tawdry behavior of others throws into high relief. Unfortunately, he has learned the basic ECON 101 lesson that there is more profit in selling one $190,000 mega-group than in selling one hundred $1,900 items of one thousand $190 things. And, in these strange days, these six-digit wonders WILL sell. Eventually. Meanwhile, we "proles" can drool outside the double-glazed windows of our betters.

To Ed: any trace of the old Spink Catalogue? I think that in the old Numismatic Circular there was a picture (and group description) of the medal with chain and the MMThO Knight's Cross.

Yes, I clearly remember the description and image. So far, the catalogue has eluded discovery. I thought I had kept those old ones. They are wonderful sources of frsutration.

Personally, as far as regular "dealers" are concerned, it is now down to the list of two that you suggest. Some collector dealers often have nice things, butv that is getting inferquent. High-profile auction attract the sorts of financially well-endowed bidders with whom mere mortals cannot compete.

If the research channels were more alive, I'd say it is all down to research now. One of the three reesarchers I have used just gave it up.