Eric Stahlhut

perhaps it would be more prudent to state, "commonly known producers/retailers associated..."

as you allude in your comment about KO, new information comes to light all of the time. personally, i like to keep an open mind towards these things, hence my conversation with you. remember when all floch crosses were accepted as original?

i  ran the pertinent pages through a different translation service, and what the author states is that an unknown maker mass produced these unmarked crosses (in many forms--but often one piece, stamped or cast) for resale to retailers and other "producers", one of which is emil finke of berlin.

i showed you via the goldschmiede-zeitung that this firm did in fact exist. and i showed you a purported example of a cross marked to that maker. i'm sorry if this info doesn't fit into your views about these crosses--i don't really have a vested interest in this thread, other than to explore possibilites of new information. also, the fact that you seem to reject an image based merely on the seller's nationality is a mistake, in my opinion

the author proposes that the different retailers (schickle,floch,deumer, etc. etc. added their own style of attachment systems, which explains the many many varieties of this type of cross

the style of core on this cross has been around since the 20/30s and with many types of fasteners, so you can't base the manufacturer of the core based on the clamshell. you can guess the retailer, though! which is what you have done with chris' cross and you are most likely correct

why is there no 1939 emil finke cross? i don't know, perhaps the owners of the firm emigrated around 1932-33?

here is a very nice shooting medal from 1930 hallmarked on the obverse to e. finke, berlin:

http://www.ma-shops.de/walsch/item.php5?id=1169&PHPSESSID=f42d09u1kd6s600jak48490lj6

and finally:

1 hour ago, kasle said:

     And Finke? Never heard of her

please see the" who's who" of german jewelers, watchmakers, ordenshandler, etc

.....deutsche goldschmiede-zeitung, berlin...pages 219, 283,289, 321,338...listed ...

https://books.google.com/books?id=jIXkAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA283&ots=qWqeTDU00x&dq=emil finke berlin&pg=PA283#v=onepage&q=emil finke &f=false

also:

http://germans-medal.com/shop/zheleznyj-krest-arxiv/zheleznyj-krest-2-kl-1914-emil-finke-berlin/

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i was initially going to say, "otto schickle" as well, but the 9 gave me pause, and the construction method of the clamshell is different as well. that's why i included the link to nikolai's cross. in his book he attributes this cross to an unknown maker (vol2, chapter 62.1.3., pages 173-175)

in his chapter 62 (pages 162-190) he shows many crosses with all sorts of attachment methods that all share the same core characteristics. one maker that seems to be associated with this core style is, "emil finke, berlin"

but then, in order to confuse things even more, some refer to this type of cross as a "schickle-mayer" cross

kasle,

  thank you very much for your evaluation--and the concise summary of what is currently known about hansen crosses--i will continue to relegate my appreciation for this cross towards what it actually is, versus how it could be perceived!

hi, chris

 is yours magnetic?

is it possible to take out the interior flocked bases which the crosses rest upon? sometime the interiors are marked, which could help determine era of production.

one of three awarded to the particular branch of service? and an ehrenbecher recipient to boot? that's outstanding.

congratulations!

here's a very fine cross that i am on the fence about. while the core does not have the traits of the established type, the cross has an attribute associated with hansen, and found only on certain hansen crosses. the screw post is very finely done, with a flat finished end. it's done so that the end will fit the disc flush.

overall this FLAT cross is finished very well--the corners are all hand finished, some nice higher-content silver frames (unmarked) that have a beautiful rainbow tarnish, and a decent core

 the fact that the inside of the disc has the same panoply of colors in the tarnish-- many hues of yellow, green, brown, purpley blue, and black, as the tarnish on the back of the cross--is a very good sign for me

any ideas? either way you look at it--- it's a very, very nice cross! 

takk!

so, how do you explain it?

the disc and box go together, with the cross added?

is this contemporary or period done?

interesting, i wonder if this matchsafe maker has anything to do with the screwback ek1s that have "victoria drgm"  faintly stamped on the disc

 hi MH,

  that certainly is an odd one... similar to a hansen/k & b cross, but not quite. any ideas as to who made it?

the back certainly matches! very cool, and it looks like someone's willing to cough up the dough....

what a great find! you now posess photographic evidence of an award that very few people have actually seen. how very exciting! congratulations are in order

was it only  the bavarians that did this?

On 4/23/2016 at 21:47, Chris Boonzaier said:

Very nice indeed! A side collection?

I wonder if the pinback was for Civilian wear? It looks to be a jeweller alteration?

never figured out if they were sweetheart (the luxembourg oak crown is engraved to a guy) or for civilian wear of some sort, but here's some more of my 'side collection'....the hanseatic is a beaut

p.s. sorry for going off topic, after viewing you may return to the regular programming...

brian, i'm sure that many members appreciate your militaria contributions to this forum; i know that i certainly do.

yes, you do get carried away... good luck at whichever you decide

yes, you are guilty of of being a bit of a bully to people you don't know, and to newcomers to this forum and on the WAF.

also, i have read the derogatory comments you have made elsewhere about this forum. would you like me to post a link, so that everyone can read how you really regard the membership of GMIC?

there is nothing wrong with criticism as long as it is constructive. we are all passionate about history in our own ways, but when you resort to berating people, you don't accomplish anything other than coming across as an asshat

extremely unfortunate, but why on earth would you send the person a link to this thread? it's not going to educate or inform the seller--it's just going to make the person feel insulted and defensive...perhaps the seller didn't do it on purpose.

 not that it matters, but chances are the seller is a woman. i'm basing that idea on the other items the seller has listed.

being rude to the seller is a waste of time, presumptuous, and not polite at all.

i think rick would have added one of these to his comment, if he could see what you've done, alex:

well done!

definitely a RAD tradition badge, should have two flat prongs on reverse.

i have one of these somewhere

On 9/21/2013 at 11:12, Eric Stahlhut said:

here's a lightweight and flat version with a scarce attachment system

 

 

hi, here are some examples, click on link below

and here:

last but not least

here's another 4-star .800 D.O.V.-- this one has the threading inside the nut stripped, so the owner took a slice of iron and drilled, threaded it and slipped it inside of nut. perhaps from a bullet or shell?

it's also hand engraved, but i haven't gotten around to deciphering the script yet

1 hour ago, ccj said:

I'm not certain that I understand what's been stated. I'm confused...

charles,

  according to the existing rolls and documentation that has been found so far, the crosses without the inscription on the arms--war MERIT cross-- were ONLY issued hanging off of a ribbon-- the smaller 40mm pinback versions without inscription on the cross arms were not formally awarded or issued. technically there was no "first class"

the larger 45mm crosses with the inscription--war HONOR cross-were issued and awarded, and candidates had to fulfill different criteria in order to win them.

here's another website with info in english for you

http://antique-photos.com/en/awardsdatabase/german-empire/lippe/601-war-merit-cross.html

hi roman, glad you saw this!

there was a photo  posted on this forum (i think between 2011-2013) where an officer was wearing the 40mm cross. it was obviously the smaller size, as it was next to another medal such as the ek1, wound badge, or perhaps a silesian eagle, etc. i cannot remember if the officer was 3rd reich, weimar, freikorps, or imperial, but i remember commenting that the cross was indeed the one sans inscription because of the size difference.

 i am still trying to find the thread, hopefully the image was not lost when this website was converted a few years ago....a lot of images were lost.