dblmed

Uniforms Organization and History of the German Police: Vol. 2 By John R. Angolia and Hugh Page Taylor

This is "THE BOOK" that we Polizei Collectors have been waiting for! (Vol. 1 came out way back in 2004.)

Vol. 2 is stated to cover 5 of the major branches of the Polizei organization:

? Protection Police

? Traffic Police

? Municipal Police

? Gendarmerie (including Motorized branch) and

? TeNo / TN - Technical Emergency Corps.

The book will be huge, at 808 pages & 1,083 photos / illustrations. (More to See and More to Learn!)

http://www.bender-publishing.com/Uni...oliceVol2.html

I got a chance to read portions of this book pre-publication. The degree of Detail and Explanation, as well as the depth of previously unknown (unseen) information, and well as historical documentation - is without any comparison. This will soon become 'THE' Reference.

I've got my order in for a couple - (one to Use and one to Archive) - and can't wait for their arrival! ... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Paul ... Yep, you are 100% right that the LT. Sleeve TeNo 1933 Armscheibe Patch got my attention.!

To my eyes, it is one of the most striking of the TeNo / TN insignia patches. Photos showing it, let you

know that you have a nice 'Early' TeNo photo.

Dated photos confirm that it was introduced in late 1933. The 'Square TN Patch' was authorized to be worn

until 1937, when only the TN Eagle Triangle Patch was to be worn on the LT. sleeve per regulations. Apparently

the TN gave the members 2 years (1935-1937) to make the Uniform transition.

The TN Eagle Triangle Patch was introduced in 1935, along with the new TN Eagle Emblem for the Visors.

Below are TeNo 1933 Armscheibe Patches from 2 Different Makers (Manufacturers) - interestingly that BOTH

have Ges. Gesch. on them! Both are the familiar 15 Cogs, but some minor differences, such as the width of

the "T" and others. Bevo-Barmen became BEVO, but G & W is a still unknown Maker. ..... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Paul ... NICE TeNo Photo which shows us a lot of great information!

Date - is between mid 1935 (when the TN Visor Eagle came out) and early 1937 (last date that the Square TN Armscheibe could be worn, instead of the TN Eagle Triangle sleeve patch.

Even narrower Date - is prior to the 1936 shoulder board change - to both shoulders. So, it is a nice narrow time frame.

Collars - Can't tell for sure, but it looks like NO Collar Patch - and just Arabic #'s LT. and Roman Numerals on RT. The familiar TN Collar Tab, was another 1936 Introduction.

? WWI Ribbons - he looks young, but who knows?

Nice NCO/EM Visor and correct TN Uniform. Love the Belt and Cross Strap (+ Gloves.)

Could be the same TN Mann, but to me he looks a little different. Any writing on the Reverse?

A Nice TN representative photo showing early TN Uniform & Insignia Details. Txs, Dave/dblmed

Postally unused I'm afraid I'll take your advice and scan each individual and see what I come up with.

For a multiperson Photo, like your Belzig class, I'd scan at 1,200 dpi (or at least 600 dpi) - so you can look carefully at

each of the persons.

Sometimes there is a small detail in 1-2 guys - like a different cap eagle, or sleeve eagle, which "Pops UP."

Some of the fun things to look for / hope to find in TN Photos, as "General" time indicators - are:

• Sidecaps - Blue was 1st Color, with Field-Grey added in 1939
• Visors - TN Visor Eagle in 1935 - Oakleaf M?tzenkranz thru late 1935, then Laurel Leaf M?tzenkranz 1936
• LT. Sleeve Eagle - (Dunkleblau) 1935 (but the older Square TN Armscriebe was authorized to be worn also, until 1937)
• LT. Sleeve Green 'Work Uniform' Eagle Patch - definitely pre-1939, will need to review my Notes for a better date...
• Shoulder Boards - RT. Only - Pre-1936
• Shoulder Boards - RT. & LT. - (1st Dual Style) 1936-1940 - then- (2nd Dual Style) 1940-mid 1943

Coldstream - You've gotten a very nice TeNo Reichsschule Belzig "Graduation / Class" Photo - CONGRATS!!

(The TN Classes seem to have always taken their final Photo, in from of the stairs and small balcony.)

Each Reichsschule Class / Lehrgang was for a 2 week duration & was noted in the man's TN Ausweis.

Yes, seeing both the 1 and 2 button White Working Uniforms (Drillich) is a great find.

For your own collection, do a Hi-Res Scan & check out each man, for uniform details - which is fun to do.

Having a Postmark is a real PLUS, because it helps to date the TN Class. From the few leaves on the trees,

the time of year looks like either early Spring - or ealy Fall (IMO) Since everyone is wearing White, I'd

guess that it is an earlier date vs. a later date.

What DATE is the Postmark? That will be fun to find out! Thanks for sharing.... Dave/dblmed

Paul .....A Great TeNo "Cut Out" Eagle! ...That is a Rare Bird, IMO.

I first saw your Eagle in "Defending the Reich" pg 473, Officer on the Right - and was amazed! No comment was made in the text, but this is a TeNo Eagle which is NOT found in the Regulations!

?1) Can you tell 'IF' it was Manufactured in this "Cut Out" configuration - or - "IF" it appears to be a TeNo Blue Triangle patch Eagle, which has been altered, to be "Cut Out?" (I studied your photo of a definitely Uniform worn Eagle, but can't tell for sure.)

?2) Below are 2 photos of your TeNo "Cut Out" Eagle in wear. (The size also confirms that this is NOT a visor eagle, which was just worn on the sleeve. Also confirmatory, is that the TN Visor eagle's head faced to the Right, not to the Left, as on the Sleeve Eagle types. So, this is a different Eagle.)

LEFT Photo - Worn on a field-grey TN Uniform, with interesting Green Collar & configuration.

RIGHT Photo - Nice Portrait Photo (w the TN Dagger) worn on a (probable) field-grey TN Uniform also.

?3) I enlarged each TeNo "Cut Out" Eagle for better detail. (Looks just like yours!)

?4) I can't prove it, but my 'hunch' is that this TeNo "Cut Out" Eagle configuration was done - to more closely mirror the TN's parent organization - SS/Police, as the TN transitioned into that organization.

..... Interesting stuff!!! .....Txs, Dave/dblmed

TeNo Sports Patch-Reverse

...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Paul, Thanks for the lead on the 2 TeNo pins! Hopefully someone picked up these nice items for their collection.

While you are busy at it scanning, I'll slip this TeNo item in.

TeNo Sports Patch

I just bought a long term TeNo collection & this Super Red & Black TN Sports Patch was in the mix.

There is another TN Sports Patch on page 288 of "Defending the Reich" which is not printed in color. So the TeNo / TN may have used two models of their Sports Patch.

It measures 4.25" in diameter and seems to have been printed in a 'Silk Screen' type of process - using one color, followed by the next color. There are some small over runs of red color, which makes me think that this is the case.

TeNo Sports Patch - FRONT ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Paul, WOW... You've got a SUPER TeNo Collection!

Neat, that it is cross-sectional of various eras of the TN!

Love that NCO/EM Hauer and the Cased TN Honor Badge (Ehrenabzeichen) - and ALL the other TN items.

3 of your items hold a real interest for me!

When you have time, could you scan (Front and Back) of these three? - they are quite special indeed.

I believe that the TN Armband is either pre-33 TeNo or 1940+ Dutch TN (Technische Noodhulp) - with the same two considerations also for the great Oval TN Patch.

That 'Cut Out' Eagle is a real interest to me, & I want to see "IF" it was made that way - or, whether the post 42 TN Officers cut it down, to look more like their new parent, the SS - SS/Polizei.

(The Same one is shown on page 473 of "Defending the Reich" - the Officer on the far RIGHT - I was surprised that this "previously Unseen" TN Eagle type was not commented upon in the book. Subsequently, I have acquired 2 different Photos of Officers wearing your "cut out" or factory made, TN Sleeve Eagle.)

Great TN Collection Paul.... Thanks for Sharing(!) .... Dave/dblmed

PaulBear - NICE! You picked up an exceptional TeNo Ausweis, both in its condition, and based upon the information which it shows, that:

(1) The TN Nothelfer was a very young man (born 28.11.1917) and was age 19 when he entered the TN on 14.12.1936;

(2) He was assigned to the Signal's section, which was a part of the AD (Allgemeine Dienst);

(3) He was 'vereidigt' (sworn in) on 9.10.1937, some 10 months after his entry date. [i don't have any information about the 'swearing in' - so this Ausweis notation is exceptionally interesting to me.]

(4) His Ortsgruppe Stempel is for XI/6, listing Eiselben as the OG city.

......... XI stands for the Landesgruppe Mitteldeutschland (as of the 1934 'Die R?der' publication.)

(5) But, BEST of All (to me) is the notation (bottom edge, under Photo page) of him being issued / awarded the TN Zivilabzeichen Nr. 38170. [i've now seen this on 4 TN Ausweis, and it is Super to find!)

? NOW, what is not yet clearly known is: Was this the Enamel (Red & Black) Pin with the Nadel (needle / lapel pin) - or was it for the Enamel (Red & Black) Pin, without a needle / lapel pin?

? My Belief (but, which I can not yet prove) is that the referenced "Zivilabzeichen Nr. 38170" was for a numbered TN Enameled Lapel Type Pin.

Hopefully, the new book (hopefully released soon), "German Police, Vol. 2" will have information in the TN Chapter which may help us to clarify the two (2) different TN Enameled Pins:

* * * Red & Black Lapel Pin Type &

* * * Red & Black No Lapel Pin (Transverse / Horizontal Catch) Type.

? ? ? (Both of which were 'usually' numbered, BUT which had quite different reverse side features.)

There may also be other interesting aspects which I may have missed.

You have a Jewel of a TN Ausweis! CONGRATS! .... Best, Dave/dblmed

Yes a CAMERA Holder!

Good Eyes guys - needed to hold that camera to take photos for the TeNo Albums that we are now looking for!

I guess that this was the equivalent of the Kodak "Brownie" camera, of that time. Txs, Dave / dblmed

? TeNo / TN Armed Einsatzgruppe in France - 1940

Here is a nice photo of men of one the TeNo / TN Einsatzgruppen, involved in the invasion of France. (Young guys - Not an old guy in the bunch!).

1) They are fully kitted out, with Gas Capes etc.

2) Blank RT. Tabs, which is seen in a lot of 'outside the Reich' photos.

(Some 'invasion' photos show the lack of both Tabs & Shoulder Boards.)

3) Wearing the Classic TeNo Greatcoat, with 5 buttons / side (these are Silver & have the TN emblem, later on in the war the TN buttons were painted Green, then finally replaced with just Green Heer buttons.)

Their rifles have been ID'd as being French Model 1916 Caliber 8mm Lebel. (Must have done some secondary rearming from captured supplies.)

?? - Anyone know what the leather 'box' is, which the TN Mann on the Left, is carrying under his Ammo Pouches? ....... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thanks Rick ... I got it now! Dave/dblmed

Coldstream .... Yes, the Visor Insignia when seen on a 3/4 turned view could equally well be for the DAF, as there are similarities (when turned at this angle) vs. the early TeNo.

I was also considering what I 'think' that I could see of the the Visor Head Band, which 'looks' like it is smooth or slightly ribbed (which is consistent for a TeNo NCO/EM Visor.)

"IF" on your higher Res. scans, you can see "Leaves / ? Florals" in the Visor Head Band, then I'd go with DAF. (Also, for the 1939 date, it kinda leans to DAF.) Either way, it's really great photo for sure! ... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thanks RICK,

It always Amazes me with the fantastic documented information which you come up with. CONGRATS!

And thanks for helping to 'ID' the TN Mann, with a probable degree of certainty. Thank you.

Also of interest, is that even as 'regimented' as the German war machine was - we constantly see the incorrect usage of Insignia, etc. (Probably more common in the para-military, than in the military branches.) I have a photo of a TN Mann with an ARMY Eagle on his visor, for example!

As for the 1939 dated Photo, it would not surprise me at all "IF" some of the TN men continued to wear their Uniforms & Visors, until worn out - or until they could have afforded the "New" ones. (I am just surprised at the style of the TN Officers, at the date of 1939, wearing 'pre-36' Uniforms! But, all of that is part of the fun of collecting.) .... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Great Photo Coldstream! Your very keen eyes captured an exceptionally nice TN Photo, which historically has a great deal to tell us. (I love to examine TN photos!):

The Central TN Officer

? wears the 1935 TN Visor Eagle & the late 1935/36 TN M?tzenkranz. His Uniform is configured (with right Shoulder Boards only) in the pre-1936 change to double Shoulder Boards.

? He has the TYR Rune of a graduate of the TN Reichsschule (Belzig), above the TN Eagle Triangle patch on his left upper sleeve.

? His upper collar has a very wide "piping" (widest that I've seen!). This piping was indicative of a special assignment, and we are just now starting to learn about these.

? His Visor, upper edge piping, 'appears' to be in solid Silver (and not in Silver w Black Flecks [V's - Chevrons] ) - with the solid piping introduced in 1936.

The 2nd TN Officer

? has a very unusual Visor - as it appears to have Black w Silver V's, as does his Visor Strap / Chin Strap (just like the Visor that Mike Peters showed us in a Prior thread, (but minus the piping around the cap band - still rare to see!)

TN White Drillich 'Working Uniform'

? is shown very well, expecially on the TN Mann at the far right. It is the standard 2 button pocket TN model. (Although a rare 1 button pocket model has also been seen in photos.) The White Drillich usually looks 'bulky' - because it was often worn over a uniform or over other clothing.

2nd TN Mann - from lower Reft

? I don't recognize his model brimmed cap? Anyone know what designation it is? Txs.

2nd Mann - from lower Right

? He 'appears' to be wearing (to my eye) the rare to see 1st Model TN Visor Oval - Embroidered (1932-1933)

? which was replaced by the 1st TN Metal Visor model (1934- January 24, 1935) -

? which was then replaced by the familiar 2nd TN Metal Visor model (January 25, 1935-1945) - which was posted previously.

? (He isn't wearing a TN Uniform, no TN buttons, but does has an 'illegible' left Lapel pin (? perhaps the TN lapel pin? would need a Hi-Res scan to tell) - and he may be present as a 'stand in' volunteer at this group meeting?)

? DATE OF THIS PHOTO? Based upon all that we see here, I believe that the earliest that this photo could be is in 1936, prior to the date of the required change to the use of the double Shoulder Boards, IMO. [The 1939 date on the back kinda 'thows me' - as it seems to be too late... BUT, it is what the owner describes as the correct date, so who am I to disagree?]

[i've also noted that it took 'many months' for the TN rank and file to come into full compliance with ANY new Uniform regulations. However, the TN Officers were usually the 1st to wear the appropriate 'new' insignia configurations.] Also, all of these Visor and Uniform changes were an expense, and these men were just climbing their way out of the German Depression at this date!

Congratulations Coldstream, you certainly have acquired a TN Photo which "really talks to the viewer!"

We never find ALL of the Answers, just more great Questions!

Paulbear, I do agree with your assessment. I hadn't thought about samples from other manufacturers wanting to get in on some business, even with a "Gesc. Gesch." ...... Txs, Dave/dblmed

ASSMANN CATALOG - for the TN Visor Sets

I used the "Reddick" copy of the ASSMANN catalog, and Photoshopped the applicable Metal Visor parts.

The ASSMANN catalog states that

the TN Kranz (# 24216) was available, either in Silver (Weis Metal, Aluminum), or in Gold (the Goldene Plated Model.)

- and -

the TN Eagle (#24250) was Also available, either in Silver (Weis Metal, Aluminum), or in Gold (the Goldene Plated Model.)

Both are "Gesc. Gesch." by ASSMANN. Fun and interesting stuff! .... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Reverse of TN GOLD and TN SILVER Visor Sets.

"Gesc. Gesch." is in lower LEFT of the TN M?tzenkranz, & is one part on each side of the upper edge of the wings of the TN Visor Eagles. ... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Paulbear.... I'm positive that you will track down one of the 'TN Goldies' as you are an astute hunter! (You have every CEF!!!)

Paul.... for those Authorized to wear the TN Goldene Eagle und M?tzenkranz - there were only 3 TN Ranks:

? Chef Der TN

? Stellv. Chef Der TN

? Landesf?hrers

I've also wondered WHAT the # of Authorized TN Gold wearers would be - because it is this same group which wore the GOLD TN Buckle, an example of which has not been shown in any text (to my knowledge) - yet, so I'm still looking! I have tried to 'guestimate' the number as follows (subject to my assumptions!)

Chef Der TN ........... H. Weinreich (1934-1943); W. Smelcher (1943-45) = 2

Stellv. Chef Der TN... E. Hampe (pre-1933 - 1942); Seibert (1943-45) = 2

Landesf?hrers - the number of Landesgruppen changed, over time in WWII,

? but there were 21 listed LG Numbers (minus about 3 numbers which were not used.) So that is 18, but some LF's retired or died, but let's still use the number 18, to err on the high side.

? let's assume that Each Landesf?hrer had 2 dress Uniforms + 1 summer Weis Uniform = 3 per each Landesf?hrer

? So 18 x 3 = 54 Landesf?hrer expected sets used.

? Then 2 x 3 + 2 x 3 (for Chef & Stellv. Chef) = 12 other sets used.

? Total = 54 + 12 = 66 TN Goldene Eagle und M?tzenkranz Sets (and GOLD Buckle & Brocade Sets.)

BUT, I imagine that ASSMANN made More than 66 Gold sets, just as a matter of business, PLUS a few unused Gold sets are found by collectors (such as the one which I will Post.)

My totally 'Guestimated & Scientifically Unsubstantiated' Number of these types of Gold TN sets is about 100 (which is still subject to a wide possibility of errors!)

(But, it's fun to try to arrive at a Number, and the number is certainly a low one.) ... Txs, Dave/dblmed

? TeNo Gold Visor Eagles - 2 Types

It is also very interesting to take a look at TeNo / TN Bullion Visor Eagles - as they continue to follow the pattern of the 1935 Visor Eagle - in that the arms of the Swastika are very distinct and are clearly separated [cut out] from the base material.

As would be expected, the TeNo Gold Metal Visor Eagles (which are very rarely found), should also be found in - 2 Types. They have been ID'd in the (early) Nickel Silver Type (w Gold Color Plating) - and - in the more common (later) Aluminum (w Gold Color Plating) Type. ... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Assmann Sample Board of TN Visor Insignia

Over the years, I have looked at perhaps several 100's of Aluminum TN Visor Eagles, but only 4 of the Nickel Silver TN Visor Eagles. So, it is quite apparent that the NS type is 'rare' - but I wondered WHY?

I believe that I may have found the answer in studying my Assmann Sample Board, which very clearly shows the 2 'variations' of the standard TN visor insignia. [Like so much in collecting, the answer was right in front of me ... but I did not recognize it for a long while!]

From having reviewed this sample board, the TN magazine "Die R?der", period TN photos and the 1942 & 1945 issues of Die Deutsche Polizei Taschenbuch f?r die Technische Nothilfe - it is my belief that the Nickel-Silver TN Visor Eagle was only produced in 1935 (the year in which it was introduced).

Afterwards, production from late 1935/36 - 1945 switched to the Aluminum TN Eagle. (Of course, some NS models could have remained in the Assmann stock, until used up.)

Interestingly, the TN Cocqarde (M?tzenkranz)for the 1935 TN Eagle, was actually a standard pattern Assmann "Heer" type, which photos show in wear in 1935. Then, the TN Laurel (M?tzenkranz) was introduced "at a later date" but the exact date has not yet been identified. (Photos of 1936 do confirm that it was in use by then.)

This very brief time frame of production helps to explain why we collectors very, very rarely come across an example of a Nickel-Silver TN Visor Eagle, IMO. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thanks for ID's on the Medals Chris!

Was it common at that time to wear the EK2 and Hindenburg Cross ribbon in the button hole, instead of on a proper parade / ribbon bar, above the left pocket? ...... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Hi Chris,

Here's a close up of the Medals, Ribbon & Pins for 2 TN Officers.

Hope that you can ID them!

TN Officer # 1 - & - TN Officer # 2 (an unidentified Landesf?hrer)

Txs, Dave/dblmed

? TN Officer with WWI Submariner Badge ?

This is a nice TN Uniform, and related, photo.

The date is late 1935 - early 1936 (as the sleeve eagle came out in 1935, but the single shoulder board was changed to Double Shoulder Boards in 1936.)

• TN Right Tab is XII/5 - for Ortsgruppe Kassel (matches up with Kassel on the photographer's stamp on reverse)
• A Trade Circle on the left lower sleeve
• Part of a 1919-1923 Honor Cuff Title on the lower right sleeve
• TN Visor Eagle + Laurel Mutzenkranz
• Medals on ribbons (which I can't ID)
• Close up of what I believe is the WWI Submariner Badge, (below a circular pin / badge)
• The 'unusual' leather gaiters / protectors around his boots / shoes.

Lots of fun items to see in this photo. ..... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thanks Rick(!) .....You've definitely got 'Eagle Eyes' to pick those out!

"Most" of the higher ranking TN Officers seem to have had service in WWI, as these awards do confirm for this particular fellow. ....... Txs, Dave/dblmed