dblmed

Here is an ID tab from the Estonian Schuma Police Battalion 31 ...

(Courtesy of Sturmmann / Estonia - WAF)

"...I guess the round ones were produced most probably in Latvia or some other Baltic country - I have a round one coming from Schuma Batl. 19. ..." (Mr. Dogtag / Al)

? Isn't it Amazing!

Without the 'Magic' of the NET, and Militaria Forums - we would never find these type of materials, or the diversity of World Wide TR Collections! ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Schuma Batl. 5 (Lithuanian)

"...This ID tag was found in the Kurland area ......

The question is about disk... Schutzmannschafts Bataillon 5 (Lit.).

I have seen another disk of such 'Round' kind from Schutzm. Batl. 23 (Lett.)

As I understand such disks were given in 1941.

Who knows why they are so strange? Maybe these disks were produced somewhere in Baltic states? ..."

(Courtesy of Victor L. / Latvia ... WAF)

Here is a 273 Schuma ID (Dogtag) - Don't know which Country the Unit drew it's men. ...Dave/dblmed

Then, with another neat commentary from a fellow Collector - Mr. Dogtag - Al (on WAF)

• "...Hi Dave....I could find some info about Schutzmannschaften Batl. 273. It was formed in the eastern part of Latvia.
• In 15.07.43 the Battalion was added to Schutzmannschaften. Batl. 276.
• A month later Schutzm. Batl. 276 became IV Batl. in Lett. Pol. Regt. 1.,
• which in the end of 1944 joined SS Waffen Grenadiere Division (Lett.) 15..." (Courtesy of Mr. Dogtag - Al / Poland).

Schuma Batl. 64 Here is a Schuma ID Tag that I have - for a man in Schuma Batl. 64

With a neat commentary from a fellow Collector - Mr. Dogtag - Al (on WAF)

"...Yes Schuma 64 Btl. was a Belorussian Schuma Bataillon and it was later incorporated into 30 Waffen Grenenadier Belorussian SS Division.

These Belorussian Schuma tags were recovered in Poland some 60 km north from Warsaw. Actually it's an interesting story.

A friend of mine went metaldetecting in an old 19th cent battlefield. Suddenly a local villager came and noticed a tag on my friend's neck. He said that he's got one in his house as there were some 100 or more at the attic left over by Germans. He brought the tag but said that the rest were thrown away when they were tiding up the attic in 70-ties. We have spent some 2 years before we found the field where the tags were spread by plough all over the place..."

(Courtesy of Mr. Dogtag - Al / Poland)

Thanks! The SCHUMA is another one of the 'poorly' understood Police Auxilliary Organizations (much like the TeNo ? TN was, before "German Police, Vol. 2" was published.)

It is my understanding that the SCHUMA will be covered in the next volume of the Bender series - "German Police, Vol. 3."

But, I have no idea when the next volume will be released! I can not imagine the amount of research which will be needed, in order to cover ALL of the SCHUMA. However, if "Vol. 2" is any indication - then in "Vol. 3" we'll be in for an educational treat, as well as the "Eye Candy" of Super Photos & TR Items, of the SCHUMA, plus many other Core Polizei Organizations. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

A quite Unusual Photo of Schuma men, along with their supervising German Police Officer & Police NCO Cadre.

(Courtesy of my friend, Askold.)

Almost ALL of the Schuma men are wearing converted Allgemeine SS Black Uniforms, which have been

locally altered. This usually consisted of adding Green (or Grey) Collars - Cuffs - & Lower Flap Pocket

fold overs. Other uniform variations are also present. The 'Schuma' side caps could be the old SS-VT ones,

with the Left sided eagle removed - or of another type. A 'Really' Special Photo!

Additional Information from Askold, regarding the above Schuma Photo:

"...This Foto shows Schuma Graduates from the Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia who are attending a trip/conference..."

This helps greatly to explain WHY we see so many different Schuma uniform variations in the Photo, IMO. Txs to Askold. ... Dave/dblmed

Schuma Mann wearing an SS Insignia M43 Cap.

(Photo is Courtesy of my friend, Wotan)

It seems that the Schuma wore whatever Uniform combinations were available to them.

Supply & Distribution of Items to the Schuma appears to have been a significant challenge.

Since the Schuma was subordinate to the SS & Polizei, unusual Uniform combinations seem to be 'routine!'

...Txs, Dave / dblmed

Really Spectacular Schuma M43 made of a Bluish Tinted Cloth Color.

KEITH ( www.hmsbrinmaric) has also posted his Really NICE Schuma M43. It has a neat bluish

tint to the cloth, plus it is in great shape. It's a Super Looker! Txs to Keith.

SUPER Schuma EM w Police Green Color to the Piping.

KEITH ( www.hmsbrinmaric) posted his SUPER Schuma EM w the Police Green

Center Piping present. A super Schuma EM Side Cap. Thanks to Keith!

Great photo Coldstream!

Yes, it looks like a grouping of WSP, Polizei and RLB to me also.

Your photo really shows those Large WSP Bullion Visor Eagles very well! ... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Hi Paul! (Somewhere out in the Pacific!)

Nope - I am still a Diehard TeNo & Schuma Collector, & I only dabble in other areas, from time to time.

Since the Polizei was directly 'Related' to the above 2 areas, I find it of great interest. Especially for the historical perspective of what was going on, at the time.

A good friend sent me this WSP Photo, because he knew that it featured a number of TeNo men in uniforms - and especially that of TN Landesf?hrer XVII, Walther Junecke.

Seems that the WSP was a sort of "Land Locked" Navy, under Polizei control - All of which just adds to the interest! ...Best, Dave/dblmed

The WSP (Wasserschutzpolizei) Officer is the most 'Unusual' figure which is seen in this Photo.

as the WSP was a very, very small Organization, within the Polizei.

All of the Uniforms which are seen, gives us a time capsule view of what was being worn by the

various Orgs., during the same time frame. Fascinating to see them All together, for what seems

to be a less than dramatic event: "Presentation of 4 Boats" in Wein (Vienna). ...Txs, ... Dave/dblmed

Bill Unland,

placed his WSP Bullion Visor Eagle, on a Visor, for a nice visual

comparison of the Size of this quite rarely foun, Visor Eagle (WAF)

Joe Wotka

has added his Super Photo of WSP Officers, dressed in Full Regalia (WAF):

Dave Cameron -

added this Super Wasserschutzpolizei Visor Photo (WAF)

Bill Unland, I just went to your WSP Archival Thread on GDC:

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums...4/m/7110042655

And there it is - the quite magnificent 'Oversized' WSP Visor Eagle, in Gold Bullion!

That MUST be a Rare Eagle! Congrats!.......Txs, Dave/dblmed

Bill Unland, added (WAF)

"...Here is my "controversial" WSP bullion cap eagle. I say controversial because it has 6 wing feathers instead of three as specified in regulations. Some feel this makes it a reproduction, but I do not and have explained my analysis in another thread. In any case, as mentioned, these were in between in size of a sleeve eagle and a normal cap eagle. I think that the reason was that any smaller would be impossible to execute with any detail in bullion. And since only the WSP used bullion cap eagles, these "oversized eagles are only seen on WSP caps...

Joe W has added (WAF):

"...Kaltenbrunner is wearing his SIPO uniform with rank insignia for an SS-Gruppenfuhrer in his capacity as HSSPF Wehrkreis XVII.

Behind Gauleiter of Niederdonau Dr. Jury is BdO GenMaj Carl Retzlaff wearing pre-42 collar tabs. Dr. Jury seems to be wearing his new post 1939 Party visor but he chose to wear his older sleeve brassard. Odd to say the least. I would date it early 1940/41. JoeW..."

Stonemint, added (WAF)

"...One of the best multi-uniform shots I have seen. I do believe there is a KM officer obscured by Kaltenbrunner, and I would agree the other NCO probably is Zoll. Thanks for posting...."

G Hansen has added (WAF):

"Kaltenbrunner wearing pre '42 insignia of SS-Gruppenfuhrer, to which he was promoted 1 April 1941.

"...Kaltenbrunner was promoted to SS-Obergruppenf?hrer und General der Polizei 21 June 1943, so the photo it has to be prior to this date...."

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...;highlight=teno

Some informative Comments & Information, from around the NET.

ORPO - Noted on GDC, that:

"... The Polizei General would have Green facings on his greatcoat instead of Red..."

Dwight - Noted, that:

"...The tall SS officer certainly looks like Ernst Kaltenbrunner...."

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc...744/m/437101871

Karsten - What Amazing Photos - showing the Ernestine Order in wear! How Very Special! Those MUST be very

Rare Photos! CONGRATS! Thanks for Sharining them!

Lars - Simply WONDERFUL - with the extent of "Mini's" of the Ernestine Order! They are so beautiful, that it

makes my Head Spin & Eye are glued to the Screen! (I was unaware of the "Mini" to the 1935 'last' Ernestine Order!

Thanks for Informing me, and advancing the Knowledge base! When I purchased the LF & GenMaj. Junecke Collection

from his last remaining family member - there was no 'Mini' in the trove of items! Now, I will look for one - but I do

suspect that it will be a difficult Hunt - as almost ANY example of the Ernestine Order is hard to locate!)

This is GREAT Thread on the Ernestine Order - & it keeps getting even better with each Post! ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Quite an Amazing set of Documents! CONGRATS!

You laid them out so nicely & presented them in an order, which made following you man's "Transitions"

easy to understand. Thanks for Sharing this TR Treasure! ... Dave/dblmed

Hi Claudio - Here is the Reverse of the Medals & the 2 Bars for your review.

Txs,... Dave/dblmed

Thanks Rick! ..... Your fantastic Explanation & Historical Review is greatly appreciated!

Now, I can better 'understand' - WHY I had such difficulties in "Understanding" the Signicance

of this TR "Last" Ernestine Order! Many Thanks(!) ...... Dave/dblmed

Hello Ernestine Order Collectors & Afficianados!

I would like to add a Different Example of the Ernestine Order, from my collection.

Deruelle, your EH3bX & other Examples are Superb & are of such beautiful construction!

Wildcard / ErikMuller - your "Mini's" are fantastic!

Carol 1 - the examples which you shown really help in better understanding the different 'types' of the Ernestine Order!

Deruelle - from the information which you posted, I surmise that my example is a WWI, or even later, 'type' -

based solely upon the age & history of the recipient, Walther Junecke, of Halle.

Walther Junecke was the TN ? TeNo (Technische Nothilfe) Landerfuhrer of LG XVII (from 1938-1945), & he was also

a General Major der Polizei from 1943-1945. I acquired his Parade Medals & the two Medal Bars - all showing an award of ? Class / Type ? of the Ernestine Order.

(Shown Below & I have tried to enlarge the 'Medal' to show the Detail).

(1) Which ? Class / Type ? of the Ernestine Order is represented?

(2) What is the Significance of two sizes, of the Medal Bars?

Many Thanks! ...... Dave/dblmed

TeNo M40 Ensatztruppen Field-Grey Uniform - Details - #2

Posted for Camonut