Luftmensch

Can anyone identify what this peg-legged not-so-ancient looking warrior is doing to make a few pence on Hyde Park Corner, ca. 1800? Is he wearing a Chelsea pensioner's uniform or his old regimentals?

Above the squirrel? or rat? appears to be a row of small bells. Everyone I've shown this to is at a loss for words...

Rgds

John

Here are some better pictures of Loerzer's "personal cut-out pilot's badge."

http://www.pourlemerite.org/miscellaneous/miscellaneous.php

and some of the other insignia he wore when he went riding on his Harley!

This is the fake that we saw circulate several years ago, with the depiction of an engraved PLM and award date on the back of a handful of repro cut-out pilots to famous aces. There is a thread in which Stogie condemns them.

Rgds

Yes, but some officers were wearing cardboard belts by this time...and civilians paper suits.

Meanwhile, I think we lost Imp six days ago...I congratulate him on finding more worthy pursuits that beating this dead horse!

Rgds

No buttals or re-buttals from me. Plenty more reference points to conclude that's the same tunic and the rest is QED! Nice work, Les, now go do something productive today!!!

Let's do a probability analysis, since the photo simply isn't clear...

In decreasing order of probability:

1. Pilot in shadow.

2. Pilot tarnished.

3. Commemorative

4. Pilot cut-out.

I ascribe probability based on numbers in existence, i.e. I've seen thousands of number 1, but never seen a real number 4.

Mike Stacey was a researcher and writer for Cross and Cockade. He claims based on period charters that criteria for a Commem. Pilot badge DID NOT require loss of flying status. Does anyone have docs to the contrary? I'm trying to get photocopies backing up his assertion from him in the mean time--he's not computer savvy.

Rgds

PS I dimly remember a photo of a Pilot and Comm. Pilot's badge worn together. Stogie?

Yup, the problem is definitely what we don't know we don't know. Mike Stacey of C and C was telling me at SOS that we've got it all wrong about the so-called Retired Pilot's badge, that it was in fact given out after so much time in service, and it was up to you what you wore--most army pilots evidently preferring the plane to the fat bird. I have seen two Urkunden to pilots in the summer and fall of 1918 awarding this badge while they were still in the service, but I have no other personal details. I now think (how many times have I reversed myself?) that it was just as unsoldierly to step out with a sloppy tarnished badge as it was to take a can-opener to it and alter its appearance.

So Occam's Razor tells me its the shadow caused by UFOs crossing at that precise moment in front of the sun...or a "Retired" Pilot.

Rgds

John

Now if we'd only had you and Les studying photos for WMDs in Iraq...

Sehr elegant Theorie, Herr Les...

Rgds

PS My favorite sulphur source is a hard boiled egg sliced up.

Jeez...I'm gonna start calling you Ahab!

Yup, I think shadow is least likely.

I still see the upper V as formed by wings, but then something is sticking out to the left and it looks longer than a beak...more like a fuselage!?

If I start seeing Jesus in the picture someone come and get me...

I'm just more comfortable assuming there's something we don't know about the regs as applied to Rumey's career than that we've spotted a mythical white whale--especially when my lying eyes read the contours as suggesting one badge over another. I guess the third option is that the pilot's badge is in shadow and not cut out.

Rgds

Where's Les with his arrows when you need him...

Look at the upper curve on your blow-up which would be made by the bird's left wing curving back to the right. There's nothing like that on the pilot's badge. Just the propeller...

Was he transferred temporarily, or discharged with wounds until he recuperated? I think Stogie's saying no other picture of a complete cut-out is known. So odds are it's the known retired pilot. Simplest explanation and all that...

I dunno, now...all the angles look more and more like this bird to me...

WOW--eagle-eyed spot...sure looks like you're right. A couple years ago we had a thread on these cut-outs, and I think Stogie pulled an amazing photo out of thin air showing the upper portion of a pilot's badge removed. We were talking about the latest exotic fake badges that had a PLM and personal dedication to a high-scorer all engraved on the back, and the Taube was meticulously cut-out. People were paying up to $2500 for these hump-ups. Amazing that one of these may have existed, given that it is pretty blatantly non-reg., in fact butchery of a reg badge. I think we hypothesised before that this may only have been possible post-Armistice. But then your pic seems to refute that!

Rgds

John

We don't know this maker, but it's examples are starting to come out of the woodwork. I think it's terrific. Congratulations!

I got news for ya, Mike. $25 thirty years ago costs a few hundred bucks today! Rgds, John

Just thought I'd let you know.

From the rotogravure July 21, 1916...

Whoever they were....agreed!

So ignorance and opportunism knows no political bounds...or else OMSA failed to get the message out?

Touchingly noted...

Every politician who wants to run again could just see their opponents campaign ad down the road..."He voted AGAINST the Stolen Valor Act" in that moviefone voice. I think that's about as far as they analyse this in their minds...

For any who don't want to wait to start contributing to Rick's defence fund, you can paypall me at omigoddidjaseewhattheydidtorick@att.net...

If Rick gets into trouble I will put my Canadian passport on eBay (but no medals!) to get his defence fund rolling, so any of you American medal collectors who need a new Heimat bid strong...

ACH so...I think I go back and clean by AG badge v e r y c a r e f u l l y !!!!!!

I'm not sure about the heroin analogy. It's yours legally (for the duration) if you have a bill of sale pre-dating Pres Burning Bush's signing into law for all items over $500 in value, I read somewhere. I think the only legal way to dispose of these upon death is to chuck them over the White House fence, or maybe find the memorial on the Mall that corresponds to your time period of your medals and DROP THEM IN THE RECEPTACLE PROVIDED!!!