Luftmensch

tiny marks...in order that they and their friends be able to quickly identify their work....

PK

Like all the naysayers using the whistling icon?

Thanks for the info.

Detlev makes mistakes.

Someone show me that flaw in an attributable group from a family and it's case closed. Just as it was with crowns. Otherwise, I'll avoid the flaw...but still be open to the possibility they're okay. Meanwhile, Stogie, if I see any I'll trade ya for more cases.

Reasonable positon for someone who's building up a thesis, but for a collector I'd be cautious and avoid this flaw as I avoided crowns even before I was fully convinced. Anyone have a die flaw like this on a badge in an attributable group? I do not.

Rgds

Oooops, there it is...still, nice ratio of hits to misses!

Here ya go...

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congrega...4071997_en.html

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_...ne_of_the_Faith

I almost @#$% myself when I noticed someone reading this thread named VATICAN...then I looked again and he was called VATIAN...

I just learned there still is a Holy Office of the Inquisition!

Rgds

Col-lapsed Catholic

Here ya go...with offensive symbols trimmed by the wire service...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/19/...ain689498.shtml

Super pieces! Thanks for the look see!!

I would appreciate the heads up in his place...not that his #@%& is bad...but that he could learn something from this forum, and come his own better-informed conclusions.

Rgds

and a few cute doodads...

Here's an original SALTY! beauty...(I never miss an opportunity to thank Stogie Enterprises for a certain case...)

I'm confused, Vince. How many planes did this relative shoot down? I hope they all know to leave their insignia to you in their wills. All my relatives left me was a dirty knapsack and a calling card for Madame Jacqueline -- rue Caillaux (English spoken).

[Latest email--Dec. 2]

Hello, John

You have the permission to post my emails on the GMIC forum.

I'll answer your questions. first

My profession in Israel was practical engineer.

Otto himself paid a price because of the need to hide his wife religion he couldn't get into the NSDAP (the Nazi party).

One who wanted to become a party member hade to declare and bring proof to his pure race at least 4 generations back, and the same for his wife. He couldn't do it and that is the reason that he wasn't a party member.

It was in 1933/4 he saw all his friends become generals and he was only a major in the reserve of the Luftwaffe.

He wasn't promoted and couldn't be an active officer.

After the war when my mother wanted to return to Russia, Otto wanted to join us. It didn't happen because my mother heard that we will be sent to Sibiria. My mother and I decided to immigrate to Israel.

I don't know what were his last thoughts, I wasn't there, I believe he was thinking of us. An old German friend of mine told me , many years later, that at 1950 my grandmother-Otto's mother where searching for us in Germany and in Israel but she didn't find us.

I'll be pleased to get what Frau Tolmie sent you.

Gruesse aus Israel.

Heinz.

[Nov. 25]

Hello john

Sorry it took me so long to continue my story.

Commissar Nelen demanded that I, Otto's son, had to volunteer to be an officer in the German army. My mother told me I had already volunteered to the air force to be a pilot and an officer. At the end of the meeting the commissar said to my mother that a man who does that kind of thing to his wife is a "Lump" means a rat.

She got new papers on the name of Yelena Karnilova with a new birth date and birth place. When she got back from the Gestapo she told me to go and volunteer immediately to the air force.

The Russian aristocracy in Europe received the news that princess Karnilova is in Germany and they appeared at our house and they wanted me to marry a Russian princess. I was drafted at 1943 and sent to 3 months of training with a shovel. Then I went to train in the air force. And then I went to the aviation academy in Dresden.

When I was in the academy my grandfather died.

Otto came to the funeral and we met there. (at that time, my father was going to marry the "good German girl"). When we met at the funeral Otto admit that he handed us over to the Gestapo but he was blackmailed to do it. He was afraid so he did it.

During all the time he protected us by forging documents for us and moving us from one city to another so we won't get caught as Jews.

My father was not Don Juan but he had an old love from the days before ww1. she was a dressmaker and her name was Gertrud Singer.

In the year of 1936 or 1937 my mother received a phone call from a dentist in the name of DR. HUBER. He told her that Otto has a love affair with his wife ("the good German girl") and he is on his way to kill Otto.

My mother told him to wait, she will fly immediately to Stuttgart, where Otto was with his wife. When she arrived they where gone. My mother met the dentist and he took her back to the airport to fly home.

This woman was the one Otto married in 1944. this was the mother of frau Tolmie, (I think, Frau Tolmie knew nothing about it).

I was a flying cadet in Neukuren in eastern Prussia and than in Elbing and after that in Stolp, and than I was a pilot in Fighter squadron. At that time the army had no gasoline, so we didn't fly.

After ww2 my mother became jewish and a doctor (medic.) again, formally. She took tests to practice medicine in Germany, Switzerland and Israel.

Otto came to visit us after the ww2 about 3 times.

My mother was afraid that the Nazism will rise again and she asked the American military government permit to immigrate to the u.s.a , with me of course. I as a German could get a visa in two weeks, but my mother had to wait 10 years because she was born in Russia. So, she asked for a visa from Russia, and they promised her professorship and a job for me as a pilot, and they wanted that Otto will join us. Later we heard that they want to send us to Siberia.

At that time my mother practiced medicine in the university clinic in Frankfurt and in the displace persons camp for Jewish people. Than we decided to go to Israel.

That the end of my story.

Otto Wieprich in 1938.

[A few brief emails...]

Hi john

This is Nurit now.

The story of that paragraph was the one she invented to rescue herself. My grandmother was born Jewish, her father name was Azarch, he was a Jew, she studied medicine in Moscow Univercity, we wrote about it earlier.

Otto knew that she was Jewish from the first moment. And yes she was Jewish and so are my father and the rest of our family. My father was born in Halbersttat in the house Otto was born and raised.

The story she told the Gestapo was prepared by her very carefully because she knew that she's in danger. She told that cover story to Otto's father and someone she knew will help her in need. Why Otto did it? Next time because it's a long story, and I don't want to spoil it.

If you have more questions , please feel free to ask.

Bye, Nurit

________________________________

Thank you, Nurit. I think I understand...desperate maneuvers for desperate times! Now I am really in suspense!

Best rgds

John

PS I asked before. If you don't not answer I will assume it is a sensitive question and not ask again. Are you in touch with Frau Tolmie? Is there something next in this story about Otto that has caused a rift in this family?

_________________________________

John

We don't know her, first time we saw her name was in your mail.

My father knew her name when his father married her mother, but there was no connection.

When you'll read the whole story you'll understand why.

My father tells about her mother later in the story.

Frau Tolmie was a young girl and not responsible, and I assume, didn't know what her mother had done.

I'll continue writing soon,

nurit

Give it up, boys...

The Sprengmeister got there before us.

I especially like the insight that Jesus and Hitler were both fans of curling...

http://www.sprengmeister.org/nsfw/jesusishitler/

No, Gefreiter or Feldwebel Christ could have been Alsatian...I'm guessing he wasn't an officer, `tho...washing his men's feet would've gotten him busted in rank.

Wait a minute...GOTT MIT UNS....CHRIS (B) plus "+" (EK1) (or letter "T" which is in the shape of a "cross"). Did Jesus CHRIST, the Son of God come down and fight for the Germans and win another "Cross"?

Is this why you are posting this riddle over "Xmas"?

Is this the final secret of the "Holy Grail" that the "Da Vinci Code" dared not speak of...?

How do we know you are in Cambodia and not in the Vatican right now showing the German Pope your holy treasure...?

Holy grail of fighting EKs? How many crosses did Hitler give away in his time? One to Geli, one to Eva, one to...

[My response on Nov. 5]

Dear Heinz and Nurit,

Thank you for the fascinating update. I would like to ask some questions to understand better that last paragraph which has so much information!

1942 she was called by the Gestapo in Frankfurt am main. And commissar Nelen was handling her case. He told her that he knows that she is jewish. She answered that probably her husband wanted to get rid of her in a cheap and easy way, she will be sent to be killed in a camp.

Are you saying Otto informed on her to get rid of her? If so, because he was scared? Or because he was tired of her?

During the revolution in Russia she was afraid that she will get killed because of her father. The general Kornilov was murdered in 1918. (she took all thos facts from the encyclopedia and a history book). She ran away after her "father" was murdered and met on her way an old Jewish doctor, she was dying, her name was Sara Azarch, when Sara Azarch died she took her documents and her identity, and since than she was a Jew by the name of Sara Azarch. She didn't tell her husband because she was afraid that he'll send her back to Russia and she will be executed as an ar istocrat.

So Otto did not know about her Jewish alias. But she did ever tell him she was Jewish?

Was she, in fact, Jewish?

Who was her real father?

Did she attend medical school and become a doctor or just masquerade as one. If the latter, I assume she never practiced medicine.

Lastly, Heinz, where and when were you born? What religion were you born? So if the Gestapo believed her story they did not consider you or her Jewish.

Next time, I look forward to learning what happened to your mother and what happened to you in the war.

Good night, and thank you for this instalment. These details are most interesting and will be kept with the rest of the papers I have and not forgotten.

[Nov. 4, 2006]

Hello john

Please wait to the end of my story and only then I will give you permission to post it on the website.

About the golden watch from the soviet that you asked me about I cannot remember but I remember that he had an Ivory box for tobacco with rubies and gold. He had another Ivory box with delicate carvings for business cards.

Back to the story.

My grandparents received my mother with love and warm, and we lived in their house for a few months.

Than we moved to Berlin and my father was grounded worked in Lufthansa.

In 1927 Charles Lindberg flew from USA to Paris (the first flight over the Atlantic ocean from the west to the east). He wanted to fly from Paris to Berlin but he landed in a small airport near Cottlus, 100 Kilometers east of Berlin. My father was the flugleiter manager of that airport. ( I think he was the only employment in this airport). This story with photographs was published in the newspapers all over the world, and Otto Wieprich was again in the spotlight. He received a lot of presents that was meant to be given to Lindberg, and Lindberg gave him the first aid kit from his airplane with the USA flag on it.

Because of all the publicity he was sent to Berlin tempelhof as "nachtflugleiter"-the flight manager by night.

1928-9 he invented together with some pilots a system of landing in bad visibility conditions. It was named Z.Z.Vefahren (you can find it on google). The patent was Lufthansa's.

In 1933 after the election of Hitler the Luftwaffe was established and Otto became "Schwarmfuerer" which means captain. A special tailor sewed for him Lufthansa's uniforms for every event. He had in his closet suits that worth a lot of money. He wore one suit once, the boots gave him warts and he never wore it again.

1935 we moved to munich where he was the professional manager of the airport.

1936 he received an Olympic medal as a token of gratitude to his contribution to aviation in that time.

He participated in planning the new airport "munchenriem".

1938 we moved to Frankfurt am Main where he was given a higher job as a "streckenleiter"- in charge of a area which has multiple airports.

September 1939 Otto was drafted to the army and posted in the Fuehrerhauptquartier as a civilian worker. And there he was a "flugleiter der fuhrer und regierungsstaffel"- aviation manager of the fuhrer and the government staff. My mother and I barely saw him in that time.

1942 she was called by the Gestapo in Frankfurt am main. And commissar Nelen was handling her case. He told her that he knows that she is jewish. She answered that probably her husband wanted to get rid of her in a cheap and easy way, she will be sent to be killed in a camp. So, she told Nelen that she was the daughter of the Russian prince general Kornilov.

During the revolution in Russia she was afraid that she will get killed because of her father. The general Kornilov was murdered in 1918. (she took all thos facts from the encyclopedia and a history book). She ran away after her "father" was murdered and met on her way an old Jewish doctor, she was dying, her name was Sara Azarch, when Sara Azarch died she took her documents and her identity, and since than she was a Jew by the name of Sara Azarch. She didn't tell her husband because she was afraid that he'll send her back to Russia and she will be executed as an aristocrat. But she told this to Otto's father and to another acquaintance of Otto. They came to the Gestapo testified in her favor. The Gestapo investigated the witnesses and accepted her story, and because she got married in a false name they said that her marriage to Otto is not valid, and I am an illegal child and the grandchild of a Russian prince.

I attach a photograph.

Otto 2 years old in Halberstat at home.

Gruss

Heinz

[To be continued.]

[To be continued!]

[The first substantive email from October 23, `06--unedited or altered in any way--Nurit is translating for his father, Heinz.]

Hello john

Thank you for your Email.

First, I will answer your questions.

Yes, I am Heinz from the picture wearing the Luftwaffe uniforms. And yes my mother was the Russian doctor that Otto married in the east.

I want to tell you the whole story.

After WWI Otto worked a short time as a boxing instructor in the german police, after that he was flying with Straehle in his flying company. In this time, in Hamburg Hagenbeck was a lion that was named: "Otto Pilot". The sign said that this is a present from Otto Wieprich the pilot. Otto won the lion in a bet with the zoo manager. The bet was that he will enter the lion's cage and stay there several minutes, and so he did.

In 1923 he as sent to the east with the "Junkers". The company was named "Deruluft" and in Russian "Dobrolot".

In this time Muslims groups were fighting the Russians. One day came a Russian general, carrying bombs, and told Otto to throw it on the Muslims. On the same time he got a message that two other german pilots had an emergency landing with their plane near the rebels that he had to bomb, so he didn?t take the bombs. He flew to rescue the german pilots. When he flew back with the german crew he flew over the rebels area and he flew low above the rebels few times with full engine. The rebels were frightened and threw there weapons and shouted in fear that "Alla", means god, was coming and telling them to surrender.

For this action he got a medal of the red flag and they made big parties in several cities.

One day in 1924 came few members of the communist party to the children hospital in Tashkent where my mother was the medical manager. They wanted the big dining hall for a party. She refused. She agreed after they told her that it was for the german hero. On the party day, the most honorable people of Tashkent and Otto Wieprich himself came to the hospital. Otto was drunk and not so clean and she was not impressed. Otto spoke only german the other spoke only Russian but my mother as a jewish young woman spoke also Jidish, a language similar to german. T hey talked all day and all night and he told her that he will come back a nd marry her. He returned after a few months and they got married in a big wedding.

After that time the relations between the Russian government and the german pilots and engineers declined and they were deported from Russia in 1925.

All the story was written in a Berlin newspaper as a serialized novel under the title: "Wie wir den russischeu general aus lunden".

My mother was pregnant with me and the communist authorities told her to divorce her husband Otto. She told them that she is pregnant and she wants to join her husband in germany. They didn?t let her, but my mother had a solution, she was an expert in pediatrician and she was the Russian representative in the congress in paris that year.

In june 1925 she crossed the Russian borders and instead of going to Paris she went to Halberstatd in germany to Otto's parents.

I was born soon after.

I will continue next week.

So long,

Heinz.

I am adding some pictures from the time in Tashkent

My mother was born and raised in Vitepsk in White Russia, and studied medicine in the university of Moscow and then she went to Tashkent to work.

Hallo, Gents!

A few months ago, and quite out of the blue, I got a PM from Heinz Wieprich, Otto's son, who is the youngster in the Luftwaffe uniform in the lower left of this photo group.

His son Nurit had done some searches on the net for "Otto Wieprich" and came across our thread. Heinz registered on GMIC so he could contact me and ask why we were so curious about his father! Understanding our genuine interest in the history of those times he told me "the rest of the story" !

Apparently two sides of the Wieprich family split during the war for reasons you will learn. They have not communicated with each other in over 60 years and are unaware today of each others' existence. I'll be contacting Frau Tolmie (from whom I bought the group) about her step brother's family. I've asked Heinz to respond to any questions you may have on the material, that I may not have covered.

Kind of cool...GMIC bringing the next-of-kin of an old soldier together!!!

I'll tack the email correspondence and some new photos onto the end of this thread over the next couple days.

It started out as an Imperial topic, but most of the new material covers the Weimar/Nazi era, so I'll let out our moderators decide its best placement.

Rgds

John