Luftmensch

he finances his collecting by moon-spending with the other Gentlemen Of The Coast!

Not bad, Rick, but now that your Zen Twin is hinting at passing the baton, I nominate this, my favorite beach, LABOE, on the North Sea, for him to retire to.

It boasts one U-Boat.....

Lots of German nude bathers (that's the Ehrendenkmal in the background).....

What, Rick? Extreme close-up back and front?

Frankly, I'd rather be here:

Jeepers, Stogie, I had to wipe away a tear! You turning Buddhist on us? We can still send you close-up front `n' backs at the beach on your wireless laptop. I hear the Dalai Lama is fascinated by the world wars. You could start him collecting and he could give you the Kalachakra initiation....you would have that going for you!

They are supremely, irrationally, self-confident. Reality does not intrude.

It's called FAITH-BASED BUYING. Faith that you can buy a Godet for 3,000 and save yourself 5-10 grand.

for every person who "comes into the fold" and does start to at least attempt to learn, to gain knowledge, to not just throw money away.... there's a dozen you contact in a very friendly "Gee, you might wish to consider" manner..... only to be verbally berated, harrassed and insulted.

This is what I'm on about. Do they think they're smarter? Or are they shooting the messenger? They don't appreciate the cognitive dissonance after getting over on a badge. If the price is too good to be true it usually is, but the hopefuls turn that on its ear. Someone who paid A LOT for something is going to move heaven and earth to find out the truth and get restitution, if appropriate! Someone who got a bargain is going to dig in and defend it--surprisingly often!

The degree of defence of a bad piece varies inversely to the sum of knowledge times the money squared

I think it all comes down to Freud, money and parental love!

Actually, I've become a lot more sympathetic while on the other side of the table towards dealers, even the crooks! I think very few "bad" dealers start out saying, "I think I'll start up a business selling fakes and screwing the public!" They, like a lot of suppliers today, are hammered over time on price and take the path of less resistance instead of finding a better way to make money. I have seen so many people at shows pass up a $1,000 badge only to eagerly clutch at its repro cousin for $150 with desire in their eyes...

But my most treasured piece of silver is the plainest, this time from air mechanics to a very popular officer, "Mad" Major Draper, RNAS, who flew UNDER most of the bridges on the Thames while in his 60s to prove that older pilots weren't necessarily all washed up.

He wrote in his autobiography that this was his most treasured possession (such a gift at the time had been against regulations).

Simple, elegant. Is the date a birthday?

At the risk of getting drummed out, here are a few pieces from Allied flyers, all presented on fixed occasions. I have NEVER a case or piece of silver to an Allied pilot in which donors single themselves out for attention, unless a single dedication from a loved one.

Here the donors are split out by rank! A heartfelt piece to a chief mechanic!

I've posted this clunker of a gift before. Too elegant to scribble names on the top, and inside it is cedar lined. I wonder if this was actually posted to the front?

Here's an observer's case, with a simple dedication from a wife or girlfriend in 1915.

From "Deine Mia"

There are a few signatures in the bottom left, but the collection didn't get very far. Maybe his opportunities were cut short!

As someone who occasionally stands on the dealer side of the table--offering my treasures which took years to find, which cost a pretty penny, and which are in danger of making me a cynic--I believe you folks are overlooking something in your analysis.

MOST OF THESE PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO PAY WHAT SOMETHING IS WORTH !!!!!!

There is a psychological/emotional need by many ignorant collectors to get over on someone and "steal" an item, and that makes them sucker bait. 95% of people collecting WW1 aviation badges, for example, aren't going to pay more than $350-450! That creates a market opportunity. eBay is the perfect marketplace for "rarities" at all price points. All you have to do is believe, and avoid forums like this!

John, that case from HH which sold for eight grand, is that an authenticated item? I've never seen anything like it in terms of the number of high profile people represented.

Good question. Buying exotica from HH is sometimes like a high-wire act! You're on your own, and the price is way up there!

Hmmmm...I've never used that expression before. It could also mean you can look like a star, until something is proven bad, and you realize you have no net! Think of some of that Richthofen stuff that went off.

Thanks, Les. That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps the bidder on that third case added up the market values of all those names on Sankes and figured 8 grand was a bargoon...

My question is: did the owner take a facsimile signature of a friend to a jeweller? Did his friend send money to the jeweller or donate it along with his signature to defray the cost? Or was it at the expense and the direction of the owner to embellish his own piece over time? Not earth-shattering questions, but what about with a piece like this, which someone paid about $8,000 for at Hermann Historica?

It looks like Immelmann was the earliest signator on the front corner in 1916, and then the names went up the center in 1917 around the back in 1918 and a few stragglers inside in 1919.

So clearly these aces didn't all get together at one time and buy him a birthday gift!

In the best case this pilot was intimate friends with all these famous pilots who said, one at a time, as he drew out a cigarette, "Ach, Willi, you must put my name on your fine case!"

Next best he was acquainted with them, and collected their names the way some people collect signed photos or autographs. Otto Wieprich may have done that as he met these celebrity pilots at the airports he managed. I doubt very much Lindbergh said to Otto, "Yo, Otto, congrats on that Red Banner order!" I'm sure the celebrity recognition was fairly one sided. Unless there was a lot of friendly fraternization among pilots and they really got to know each other.

Worst case, wouldn't it be awful if some jeweller had these signatures on file and added them for a fee? Whether 1918 or 1928? That would be a trick for Bruno Stachel.

And were these field engraved? Or did the pilot have a bunch of signatures on paper by the time he made it to a sizeable town on leave where there was a good engraver?

I NEVER see these on RAF, RFC or USAS silver unless it was done all at once for a presentation--not over time...

I'm confused.

Rgds

John

Like Otto's case, some of these were added later--in fact some of these names were added after the war, one is dated "19" and another "1920".

Back of case

There are a lot of these signed tchotchkes around. Here's another one, a little different because of the fragile enamel paiting of a taube, which has taken a lot of edge knocks over the years. This belonged to a Lt. Kohlmann (I have no first initial).

Once upon a time,

I used to think a pilot's squadron mates got together, kicked in a few marks each, and bought him a ciggy case. They had engraved a date and their signatures to identify the donors of the gift and commemorate the occasion.

When I posted Otto Wieprich's case with the original 1923 inscription on one side...

It became very obvious that most of the famous aviators' signatures on the opposite side were added piecemail over the next decade or longer. Most of these names were nobodies in 1924...

Bizarre part is I actually like the quality of this one. First one in forever. despite the fuzzy scans, it actually looks legit. My question would be legit from when? 1920's? 1930's?, 1970's?

Here's another one, Stogie. I just didn't shine this on my sleeve like you did. I see these fairly often at bigger shows, this one with a Meybauer mark. You like this one, too?

Rgds

John

Have you made a nice scan of ALL his awards together in the world's most unlikely

x100 group?

Here you go...

Rgds

John

Hi, Les--

The Brampton Museum shut down about the same time, in the early to mid 90s as the flying guys on the field cut back the funds, I was told, for the museum on its premisis. The mannekins were on public view since the 70s, I believe, since I never made the trip, but could not tell you how long individual exhibits were acquired or on view.

I just googled the Museum and it appears to have been reconstituted.

http://www.greatwarflyingmuseum.com/museum/museum.html

You might email the curator with your query and keep us posted!

Rgds

John

Yeah, the closest I've been is a story. A dealer I know in Ontario got one when the Brampton Flying Club Museum broke up. The Fez went to Peter "Wingnut" Jackson who, on the strength of King Kong, could probably afford to hoover up all remaining WW1 aviation militaria in the world today for his museum in New Zealand. My only edge is that his time is worth so much, and mine so little, that I can afford to search eBay for treasures and he can't. You can always put me on retainer tho, Peter, if you're reading this...

The photos are kind of like my vision when I'm not wearing my glasses, only my vision is actually blurrier.

I think it's legit, probably 1920's or 1930's. Not so bizarre at all.

Tim

Hi, Tim! When is your employer going to make you head of your own WW1 aviation department? On a more reverential note, have you ever held one of those WW1 Turkish propeller fezes?

Rgds

John

Bizarre part is I actually like the quality of this one. First one in forever. despite the fuzzy scans, it actually looks legit. My question would be legit from when? 1920's? 1930's?, 1970's?

Then I'll post my Meybauer, as soon as I steal my camera back from my girlfriend...I thought you'd been having a bad run of luck when you wrote earlier that you see Turkish pilots every week and they all look bad to you. I've seen a fair amount of these decent ones at bigger shows over the years. Though if eBay is any judge, the trend in quality is nosediving.

I always assumed they were 1920s and 30s. But you've seen plenty of Meybauer Prussians from the 50s and later, so why not Turkish?

Reverse:

Stogie, you talking about the pin?--which I've never seen before--otherwise, from the front, it's like 99% of the badges I see, some with Meybauer markings. most with not. What's bizarre?

Yeah, with the only wrinkle that no one can find a WW1 Turkish made badge to compare it with...unless this is the first one we're seeing?