Luftmensch

:jumping:

Very cool, Vince! Did your father give you his impressions of Buttlar?

Did he swap out his PLM when Buttlar wasn't looking and gave it to you and you're holding out on us?

Good questions!

I am amazed at the dearth of good uniform shots of the Weimar airshippers. They are always bundled up in shapeless flying coats. Where were their PR handlers? :cheeky:

Wow! Great details, Rick. Many thanks. I saw that same Litewka at SOS last year. Very exotic. Schiller's metal badge is in his trophy case which, I presume, is still with the family. And I love the haphazard way our hero has laid out his baubles. Sounds like he led a busy and successful life after the wars...

I'm not clear what you mean about remote links, Rick...everything is coming up immediately for me. Is it simply slow loading from Photobucket? How can I improve that? I'm following my SOP and haven't had a problem before...

Here are Hans and Ellen together.

And I saved the BEST until last...

Hans' TROPHY CABINET!!!

In more peaceful days...

A member of the "Quiet Birdmen"

Frau von Schiller holds up a bauble she wrote "was given to him in Munich in 1965 along with Werner von Braun."

After the war, his American friends were helpful getting food and money to the Schillers through mutual contacts.

The photograph above documents a visit with the Schillers by the Uncle's brother who was posted to Germany in 1949 with the U.S. Air Force. Hans is on the left.

The story goes that his mother and grandmother had urged him to check on the Schillers, after the two women had received distressing letters about the devastation in Germany. So he took a couple fellow officers--who wanted to meet the Captain--on a car trip. Against regulations, the officers made a pit stop at the base exchange and filled the trunk of their car with food and other goodies.

When they arrived at the Schillers they were very warmly greeted, and hadn't even opened the trunk yet to reveal the contraband. When the trunk was finally opened the brother reached in and pulled out an enormous ham, which caused the ladies present to swoon. They said they hadn't seen so much meat at one time since before the war! After a happy visit lasting many hours, Hans von S. asked the brother to walk with him in private, at which time he made him a present of what he described as ""night binoculars used while flying Zeppelins". It was a gift the American would treasure until he died a few years ago.

If anyone has Schiller's post-WW1 service record I'd be interested in knowing if he was in the Luftwaffe, or was this worn on his post-1933 Zeppelin Company uniform? The backing wool is a slightly darker and bluer gray than the Zeppelin bullion badge.

He gave his American friends lots of souvenirs.

Schiller was often in the U.S. between the wars on his flights and visited his family's friends. His daughter Elizabeth was here once when she was escorted to a dance at the Naval Academy by the present owners uncle, who would fly dirigibles in the USN. Schiller gave everyone private tours of the Graf in 1928, which generated fond memories.

The "Speisesaal"

The "Gesellschaftsraum"

Among bags of correspondence is some Zeppelin mail, including a letter to Schillers' wife Ellen in Friedrichshafen...

Apart from serving as exec officer and skipper of the two Graf Zeppelins LZ 127 and LZ 130, he also flew on the Hindenburg, LZ 129, in what capacity I'm not sure because I haven't yet located all the bestselling books he wrote between the wars of his exploits.

Over Manhattan...

The observation deck next to the "Speisesaal" on the Hindenburg.

Here is one of two pairs of binoculars Schiller used, the other pair is in the Zeppelin Museum. They were given after WW2, along with all these other pieces, to German friends of the Schillers who had emigrated to the U.S. in the 19-teens.

This is NOT his coffee cup in the last photo! but something he took as a souvenir for his family.

At today's values, you could retire on one of these table services...

Here are some photos of Schiller a few years later as exec officer on board LZ 127.

The Zep badge is backed on a medium gray wool. Was this worn on his Zeppelin Company tunic? or was he in the Luftwaffe later? I can find no photos of it in wear but worn it was.

Here is Schiller over his console on a wartime mission.

Thought I?d post this Zeppelin group here, since the highlight for me is the bullion Zeppelin Commemorative badge.

I will leave it up to Rick whether it belongs in ?Weimar.?

This is the bullion Zeppelin badge to Kapit?n Hans von Schiller, XO and skipper of the Graf Zeppelin.

Schiller was:

executive officer of L 6 from November 6, 1914 until April 30, 1915 (66 sorties);

executive officer of L 11 from June 8, 1915 until February 5, 1916 (56 sorties);

executive officer of L 30 fra May 30, 1916 until December 28, 1916 (57 sorties);

executive officer of L 54 from September 16, 1917 until July 19, 1918 (27 sorties);

and executive officer of L 72 July 9, 1920 (1 testflight), for a total of 221 sorties.

His commanding officer on all these Zeppelins was Kapit?nleutnant Buttlar-Brandenfels, the Zep ace

who got the PLM from the Kaiser for his work over London...

More opinion ? defamation and libel fall outside of the freedom of speech ? especially when it is printed for all to see!!!

I have obtained your address in Maine and will pursue this legally in the morning. Assuming ofcourse that the offending comment and material remains on the sites. If not I will assume you have appreciated the seriousness of your actions and taken the appropriate steps to rectify this.

Regards

Frankmck41

John

Herewith the rules to the Gentleman?s Military Interest Club

Please read carefully as you are in breach of their terms and rules!!!

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Frankmc41

As it's after midnight his time, I don't want him to lose any more sleep. I will remove the photos but keep the ebay link.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...E:X:RTQ:GB:1123

If the link is for whatever reason is in violation, you can look up the item number yourself...

UNIQUE BERLIN HEINRICH MATHY ZEPPELIN PLATE 1917..RARE!

EXCEPTIONAL HAND PAINTED L31 ZEPPELIN COMMEM. PLATE! Item number: 170252990008

And if someone--after this item drops off--is curious about what this looks like and wishes to be forewarned they can email me for pictures which I will keep on file.

Rgds

John

The sites on which you have posted the defamatory comment and photographs has been notified accordingly:

While I always welcome sites established for the interests of hobbyists and enthusiasts however sadly they always seem to end up being abused.

I am making a formal complaint regarding your member Aerowallah whom I believe is named Mr John M Bell. Mr bell entered into communication with me earlier today regarding an item which I had posted for sale on ebay. As an accredited art and antique specialist since the early 1970's I have a very long and successful track record with books published, television appearances and am a consultant to many dealers, auction houses and private collections worldwide. Mr Bell is at grievance with a date line suggested in my listing as 1917 which he believes is 1919. Consequently I have received emails suggesting all manner of spurious and unsupported allegation. In the meantime, and without permission he has taken photographs without permission and posted them to your site. He has also done the same with partial email responses and has added derogatory opinion concerning my standing. Basically he has commited copyright fraud in respect of the images and his comments are defamatory. Allowing this behaviour sadly implicates the site owner and while I have no present grievance I am advising that I have asked Mr Bell to remove these items from the site within the next hour. I trust you will ensure that he complies with this request and I appreciate your intervention.

Ebay will be contacted by our lawyers in the morning.

Frankmc41

Goodbye, chaps! I expect the SAS to take me away in the night....

I have just read your comment ? remove it immediately!!!

I am not a stamp dealer and if you cared to read my listings you might just have grasped that! Incidentally the plate was acquired in 1973 from Sothebys and as a long standing and well established international art and antique dealer with publications to my name I am far from being out of my area of expertise. It is you who is simply flailing in the wind ? just because you cannot afford the plate ? I thought I had met all the crackpots on ebay but you certainly take the biscuit.

The matter will be documented and forwarded to ebay in the morning and referred for copyright breach and defamation if the comment and photographs are not removed. We have already made copies of the offending material and emailed this to our lawyers for their comment.

I suggest you act quickly

Frankmck41

Right you are. There is also room at 10 and 2 o'clock for a foo fighter and maybe a V-2 rocket...

Ooops, another one...It would seem the free advertising has done its job, and he doesn't want to show off...

I'll let the moderators decide the legal question...

Dear aerowallah,

I think the embarrassment is going to be all yours!

While I don't mind you openly discussing the plate in any of your forums I must ask that you immediately remove the photographs which have been used without permission. I will check later to ensure that this has been done.

Regards

Frankmck

Fair's fair and I must grant equal time...

Dear aerowallah,

There must sadly always be those who attempt to discredit items ... with so many reasons that I would simply not have time to go into them all.

I have spoken with various experts during the course of the afternoon and all that has been achieved is that we now have a serious offer off ebay from a museum. Everyone has been most helpful and interested and two discussions have indicated that the plates were painted on blanks and therefore there may be several years difference in the date to the reverse and front of the plate as these would have taken considerable time to execute with such fine and precise work.

I am awaiting a further comment concerning the badge and its issue and use from a world leading expert.

The plates are what they are and there is absolutely no record of these having ever been reproduced. In actual fact the 12 plates of which three apparently are lost or broken are entirely unique.

From our extensive experience we have generally found that unique items tend to create the biggest stir among collectors and often also achieve incredible prices as a result.

Enjoy the listing while it is up ... I ought however to advise that reproducing our images is a breach of international copyright where permission is not gained beforehand.

Regards

Frankmck41

Saw this amazing item on eBay...

Only ?1,650.00 "Buy it Now." Check it out before someone hits the button...

UNIQUE BERLIN HEINRICH MATHY ZEPPELIN PLATE 1917..RARE! on eBay, also Ceramics Pottery, World War I 1914-1918, Militaria, Collectables (end time 19-Sep-08 00:16:14 BST)

It is fabulous work, especially where the artist could not resist depicting a Zeppelin badge on a plate dated 1917.

It reminds me of a Zeppelin crewmembers "souvenir" that also came out of the UK. It looked like it was done by the same hand and also had a lurid drawing, this time of a Zeppelin being shot down in flames by a fighter. Not the sort of image I would want to remind me of my happy time in the service.

Sadly the dealer defends his piece saying he bought it at Sotheby's and that the auction house has provenenace and stands by it. Sotheby's also added that there are "experts" on the internet who blow enough hot air to keep a squadron of zeppelins aloft! I don't blame the dealer, really, he appears to be primarily a stamp dealer, and is out of his area of expertise. He also has listed a right U-boat plate, and anyone can see it has a sober period graphic. The zeppelin plate's imagery was probably conceived in the last 20 years.

Also watch out for very creative trench art coming out of the UK.

Rgds

John

Like I said, you can always have checks issued if you don't mind several weeks of float.

while I would love to have a euro account

and be able to wire money at low cost

[the way it seems to work in europe]

as far as I can tell

banking laws in the USA

seem to prevent that sort of thing

although perhaps someone can explain

how it can be done, legally

Contact a branch of HSBC Bank...by phone if there isn't one close to you. They will refer you to an IBC (International Banking Center) of HSBC. An IBC will get all forms to you to open a Euro deposit a/c and tell you how to get them filled out and notarized. They are currently inundated with American applications, so allow for 2-3 months all told. Your Euro a/c will be domiciled at a Canadian branch of HSBC. Once the a/c is set up you deal with them by phone or thru internet banking. A form notifies the IRS of its existence so I wouldn't try to shelter income there. Some tax is withheld on interest by Revenue Canada but there is a tax treaty so I believe you can claim most of it back to avoid double taxation.

Your Canadian HSBC branch will receive Euros wired from Europe, or Euro checks or I suppose cash sent by registered mail. Having set you up they would like you to leave some funds on deposit (not a bad idea as the dollar slides) but will convert and wire US funds to your US a/c as you require them. They will also mail a US $ check to you to avoid further fees. For funds on deposit they offer Euro CDs at decent rates. If you want to repatriate US dollars and don't like HSBCs conversion rate (it depends on how much you have with them!) you can use xe.com, which a lot of American dealers use. They open a/cs in Europe and occasionally top them up before buying trips by wiring US dollars and converting funds thru xe.com. XE are a Canadian company and reputable.

You can do all the above with six other currencies, none of which is possible with an American bank, unless you are some high net worth individual. Until I set this up, Citibank, for example, wanted to charge me US$1,000 conversion and fees (above the xe.com or Cdn HSBC rate) on a 7,000 pound check.

The trick is to get someone to physically deposit Euros to avoid being burned on conversion....and then someone else who will convert at something like a settlement rate (which HSBC can match if it wants the business).

I don't think it has much to do with US banking law. US banks just don't want to be in the retail currency market. After you've been nearly burned once you oblige them and look elsewhere...

Rgds