Chip

I have never seen this style of cord edging either, but the gold colored cords are indicative of officials. Chip

It doesn't look of a military nature to me. My guess is personal initials to be added to something like a piece of clothing, etc. Chip

Ageed! :lol:

Mark, There certainly are enough variations of imperial German shoulder boards to keep you going for a lifetime. But collecting the "prewar" boards is very affordable in comparison to collecting the wartime versions. The numbered straps are very inexpensive and the cyphered ones, though much more, are still in the range that I was paying for them twenty years ago. Chip

Mark, Yours is a custom purchase piece and is correct for the regiment that you mentioned. All of the infantry regiments of the XI.A.K. had red shoulder boards with yellow numbers. Here are examples from Inf.Rgt.Nr.82 of the same Korps. Chip

Herbert, Any idea when this photo was taken? Do you know which state's army he served with (i.e. Prussia, Saxony, etc.)? With this combination of lace and the Portepee, he has to be a Fähnrich. A Sergeant would have had an NCO Troddel and the large Wappenknöpfe on the collar. This is a privately purchased Waffenrock. That makes it a bit more difficult to positively identify the Schulterklappen. The piping appears to be white. So we can guess that if he was in the field artillery that is was from an army corps that had white as the corps strap color. If you have any more clues, we might be able to narrow it down a bit more. Chip

Chris, Here are some rank insignia 1919-1920 from "Zur Geschichte der Nachrichten=Truppe 1899-1924" by Oberlt.Thiele.

Look at the cuff lace of the guy on the far right. This is insignia from 1920. Chip

Chris, So let's see it. Chip

Chris, Anything like this? Chip

Gordon, You can find information on the prewar/wartime uniforms of the Feldgendarmerie in Jürgen Kraus's book, "Die feldgraue Uniformierung des deutschen Heeres 1907-1918". The new three volume set is out and available again. Chip

Thanks Hardy. You're not bad yourself! Mark, There is no reference guide I know of for helping to pick out fake shoulder straps. The good news is that there aren't that many and the ones that do exist are of two main types. The most commonly seen wartime fakes are the ones on gray cloth (the same material front and back), no piping, handsewn button holes. These are normally either trying to replicate cyphered straps or examples with special abbreviations, like "L" for Luftschiffer". Numbers and letters are always shaped from cord, not chainstitched. The cyphers always have some flaws, wrong crown, etc. Some known examples are Flieger (winged propeller), Betriebs Abt. (winged wheel), telegraph (Blitz bundel). The cyhpers are often yellow with yellow crowns, which is incorrect for infantry. Once you have seen a few, you will have no trouble picking them out. Unfortunately, they often fool beginners, though they also show up on well known websites. As Hardy said, when in doubt, check with someone here before wasting your money. The second group is much more difficult to recognize. They are very well made and fooled me at first. Once I saw more of them, I learned the flaws that give them away. They are out there being sold on a fairly regular basis and I have had collectors (who should know better) argue with me about their originality. I first saw a large grouping of these back in the 1980s. They were coming from Europe and they had a professional look to them that made me think they could have been made in the workshop of the Bavarian Army Museum, where I know they have fine crafts people, who recreate items based on originals in their collection. This was just a thought and may have no basis in reality, but another fact is that all the straps of this ilk represent Bavarian regiments. Cyphers and crowns are made just like the originals, but the strap's width is wrong. They all were the model 1907 with the tongue on the back, but they are the width of a M15 strap (M07 = 5.5cm, M15 = 4.5cm). Once this error was realized, some people selling them began cutting off the tongues to make them look like the model 1915s. So far, you only have to pay close attention to Bavarian straps. Another problem area is that of officer's shoulder boards. Fakes can easily be "made up" from original materials. An unissued board and some metal numbers or devices can make some very interesting, but illegitimate pieces. Bottom line is be very careful and insist on seeing the reverse. In addition, there are websites that offer a full array of reproduced crowns and cyphers. Their molds are made from originals, so they can be very hard to discover. I hope this helps somewhat. Contact me if you would like any advice. Chip

Thomas, The "double strap" is actually a M07 strap with tongue. In this case, just the top half of the strap was unbuttoned and folded back an tucked underneath the "Schlaufe". First time I have seen this done on a M07 strap. Thanks for showing this Jens! Chip

This type of thick insignia, though not limited to, is more typical of cavalry ciphers/crowns. Chip

Well, I see that I was mislead regarding the status of this bar. Although I had no personal interest in it, I am happy to see that someone here on the forum has been able to bring the bar into this circle of medal collectors/enthusiasts. Chip

Don, As far as I know, this bar has not been offered for sale. The owner was taken aback when he started getting unsolicited offers for it and asked me to help him find out what all the interest was about. I could not tell him anything other than it appeared to be an interesting bar that might be one that could be identified. Will it be sold at some point? I assume so. Chip

An aquaintance asked me if I thought this bar might be identifiable. Not being a medal guy, I couldn't help him much. Can anyone offer an opinion as to whether this bar could be attributed? It has an interesting mix of awards. Thanks, Chip

The two Züge of the Leibgendarmerie were never wore field gray. Chip

But to answer your question, yes, this is one of the common ways that straps were rolled up. There were other ways, most notably, just folding them in half and sticking the loose end through the shoulder "Schlaufe". Chip

Glenn, I have been trying to find this book. Do you have any leads? Thanks, Chip

Not every white prewar strap is from the foot artillery. More infantry regiments wore white than any other color. Chip

Rick, If you want me to look at it, let me know when and where you post it. Chip

Rick, PM sent. Chip

Rick, Actually, I do have a complete list. There was no white 75th foot artillery strap. One would only expect to see the prewar numbers on a Dunkelblau tunic. Perhaps when you show the photo a better assessment can be made. Chip