Tim B

Is there any possible way to research a medal bar that spans WW1 & WW2? The medal bar has the Order of the Phoenix (4th class) among others and the ribbon bar(2) have the Order of George (4th class) in addition to that. Based on the level of the two orders, it has to be an officer award. My questions are: 1) Can the bar/s be researched? 2) Both ribbon bars have swords on both the George and Phoenix Orders, I do not see crossed swords on the actual Phoenix medal. So, are the ribbon bars really not for this medal bar, or am I missing something? 3) I assumed the George Order was possibly awarded late, after the medal bar was in use but I know the award was discontinued at one point in time, circa 1926 I think, so I am confused on that aspect. I do see where the ribbon got updated to the newer "Medal for Outstanding Acts", so..? They all came together in the same grouping. I do not have the member's Order of George and received no information on the recipient when I inquired. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, if possible. Thank you, Tim

Guys, I'm sorry but, I have made a decision today to leave this forum for personal reasons that don't need discussion. I was very excited to work with Jeff here to start this series of threads on US Medals as it's pretty dead here on information. Someone else will have to take up the torch! I'll be continuing my efforts on the USMF and WAF forums. Much appreciated for the kind words, answers, and friendship over the years. Take care, Tim :cheers:

Guys, I've come to a decision today and one that I make with much sadness and reservations towards. I have decided to leave GMIC, both as a moderator as well as member. It's a personal decision, one that I should have made before I guess. I just wanted to say many thanks to all of you that have contributed here to made this small section what it is today. It will continue and I have made recommendations to Nick for a successor and alternate to take over the Victory Medal section. Please, whomever takes over, give them your support and assistance. I never did get a final answer on the issue of "topic tags" and will have to leave that for the next person, sorry. Take care, good luck in your collecting interests and maybe you'll see me on other forums. Best, Tim

Hi Lambert, Yes, looks like a French maker's stamp and a partial "Bronze" stamp on the rim, commonly seen on French produced items. I can't tell what mark is inside the triangle, could be J&B or something else. You could try to loop it or magnify it and compare to the thread in the French section on maker marks. I think you'll find that thread very informative here. Tim

This one was listed just recently and had several bidders: Tim

Here's one to be careful of: michelju Always has Vic's (and other items) for sale and often shows items that appear orginal but...not always what you get sent. He is well known here by several members. Tim

Hi Dolfek, From what I can see, I would agree that it's a period example. Here's some points that make me feel this: - The ribbon pin attachment appears to be steel; most current pieces, or replacement pins are made in brass. - The ribbon looks period and not of newer material. - If you notice the suspension, it appears to be somewhat corroded (verdigris) at the notch (front PIC). - As Frank stated, the overall finish/patina does not appear to resemble those currently restruck, which have a much brighter, more golden finish. Luckily, many of these medals can still be found in excellent condition and often with original boxes of issue. So, pehaps one of many recently discovered somewhere, or just one that was well stored over the years. My opinion anyway. Regards, Tim

Jim, It might have been all that was available when he mounted his group. Many of the unnofficial versions came out prior to the official one by the governments. Tim

Very nice Bill! I still have not added one of these or the Charles variety. One day.. Congrats on a very nice example! Tim

Yes, there are also the ones that show period originals and then send you something else. You really need to know what you're looking at and get a feeling for the seller. Unfortunately, the feedback rating doesn't always tell the truth and after 12 months, even bad guys can have 100%+. Just be careful and patient when building your collections. Tim

Briefly discussed this with Jeff yesterday and it will happen. Give up a little bit to get this started correctly. Tim

Okay guys, Give me a few days to get what I have together. I really need to discuss some of this with Jeff Floyd beforehand, as he head's this section, and I am still missing some early examples that others may need to add input. Will probably just start a series of threads with one devoted to each specific medal and we can add to each as time goes on. Tim

Well, I came across a couple of very old threads on another collecting site and two early cased examples lead me to believe there were a couple of early manufacturers. Note the example on the left mirrors the one I show above with the more bright gold rays and lighter blue stone, while the example on the right has more golden bronze rays. Also note the lapel differences between these. Tim

Lot's of old threads to browse through; here's one on the Yser Medal/Cross that you may find interesting: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/10112-ijzer-medal-belgium-public-thank-you/ Be careful, they can become addictive. Tim

Frank, There are a few old threads here you can search for more information/examples. Here's one you may find informative: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/6650-decoration-militaire-belgium/ Tim

Hi Ed, The link only provides some general background information on the decoration, but it doesn't discuss design details between initial production and later produced examples. Tim

Thanks guys! I have considered starting a series on these American Medals, similar to what Gordon Williamson did in the Japanese section with the various medals. I found those threads very interesting and quite helpful as I started collecting in that area. Not sure how much interest it would draw here, as I know there is a mix of collectors. Some extremely knowledgeable members would probably be bored silly with such a series of topics but then again, with many international members, perhaps some would find the information useful and enjoy such a series. Thoughts? Tim

Hi, I tend to agree with you but Vietnam went till 1975, so I think more along the lines of earlier VN era (prior to 1970/71), based on construction. ?? Tim

Hi Bill, As Jim alreadly stated, the ribbon has been replaced on the one you show. IMO, The France clasp is okay as is the medal pendant. The suspension knob does appear weakly soldered to the pendant however, I have noticed a wide variety of solder jobs from piece to piece when comparing examples in my collection as well. Using my previous (Russia clasp) example I posted above, I think the split in the knob was supposed to be placed downward where the solder was normally applied. Perhaps, this provides a flatter surface or larger surface area when compared to the knob ridge on the upper/lower point. As far as surface finish/coloration/tone. Some of these medals have held their finish on the pendant and clasps better than others over time. Not sure if it was a manufacturer's process or just a case where some were not as nicely finish coated in the process. We see this even in later produced items. Here's one of my 28th Div. pieces and you can see the finish has worn more in places than others, so the tone varies from golden to dull dark bronze. I think your's is fine, with a replaced ribbon. Tim

Hi Frank, Yes, pretty much. The centers do change depending on the period of manufacture. Here's a link to Guy's site and it's still the most informative site on these particular medals. http://users.telenet.be/deploige/OMD-DM/index.html TIm

Yes, I just don't understand the mentality here. I've seen past listings that: - clearly identify the item as current manufacture and an unofficial strike - identify the item as a modern restrike (i/e: there was an original strike) but a great space filler - identify the item as a modern strike of a recently approved award - period original - Rare period original I guess if the price gets bumped up to astronomical amounts, the seller is hoping someone will actually believe "it must be real"? Ridiculous Tim

Hello everyone, Been away for a couple of weeks traveling and just getting back online and up to date here. Thought I would share some information that I think will greatly improve this section. I know admin has been making several changes over the last couple of months and working hard to iron out any little bugs and I appreciate everyone's patience relating to the Victory Medal section as we progress from one long-running thread. One of the changes/upgrades currently in progress is the use of "tags". I'll get more into this over the next week or so but, it could greatly improve the forum overall and especially help us here to separate specifics when searching topics. This will also allow us to keep this particular sub-forum pretty much as is but provide us with the equivalent of having several topic sub-folders where we can filter out items and only search for the particulars of a specific search. So, it should be improving shortly and might even make that long thread easier to navigate. Almost there! Tim

The reason I believe this example to be of early construction is the unmarked brooch. The decoration was initially established in July 1960, once the Air Force got away from using pre-existing Army awards, and was first awarded in November 1965. At that time, medals were being manufactured with an unmarked crimp style brooch and if maker marked, usually had manufacturer's marks on the medal pendant's rim or lower reverse. Around 1970, manufacturers starting marking their logos on the reverse brooch and usually with the suffix of "GI" for government inspected. So...? Tim

The rim surrounding the blue stone (resin btw) appears to be somewhat defective on the right side and perhaps was misformed during the production process (see red arrows). The enameling on the stars is nicely done and the die stamping striations on the edge clearly show.

I've heard the earlier examples have a lighter blue center "jewel" and this one is lighter than the ones I see currently issued by Graco Inc. It appears to have some silver base under the blue stone, similar to the coloration of aluminum foil. Tim