hc8604

How can 70 years of medals look all the same? Same material, same ribbon suspension, same (almost) reverse font style, same reverse simplified characters, same enamel paint type, etc. Especially those of, as JapanX quoted himself, that of Nationalist/KMT/CCP medals, Manchuria, and Soviet medals, why would the CCP government award the peasants KMT medals?

Well, good luck on your research... you will definitely need rock solid evidence to prove to the 99.9% of Chinese medal collectors from all over the world. Especially to the Chinese mainland collectors who even regard these as modern fakes. I would just avoid these before time and money is invested into this and just collect the well known stuff.

You have to understand, the medals you posted are fakes or fantasies or maybe even copies of types that are rarely seen. There are many designs of common badges or medals produced by the government out there as you mentioned for the masses. The only difference is you have to research on which are fakes. I don't collect CCP stuff often and there are probable restrikes of certain medals and some fakes that are not obvious as the "copper" types posted. You can still find many items for a good price just like Soviet badges. I don't think there is much of a demand because of the number made.

I have seen several ROC type of medals that i have thought were fantasies, but later actually found the real ones, which are mostly local awards, but hardly seen. But they were made out of the "copper" types with the Soviet style ribbons and of course they typical similarities for me to avoid them.

Collecting Chinese items can be interesting at times...

The copper ones are not really copper in my opinion. I have always assumed these contained some if not, very little copper, as copper is a high demand commodity in China.

. I particular liked the part where he did not flee to Chongqing like the rest of the Nationalist government but elected to remain in Beijing to do what he could.

You can't really run a government in enemy territory, it does not work well.

Thanks everybody, I will update the list soon.

I will update it... but it seems I can't edit the original post?

I have always wanted to make a database for the Order of the Cloud and Banner as it seems relatively many survived as being awarded to foreigners. It will include class, serial number, manufacturer, date awarded (if available), name (if available), source found. Let me know if anything else should be added or removed. Medal manufacturer names will be included later since I don't have the Chinese name for them yet. There is some other auctions to go through later.

If you want to submit a serial number and/or picture post it below and I will add it to the list. Please include the source.

1st Class

2nd Class

495 - NM,ebay:Aug 2010

3rd Class

73 - GMIC:Irish

4th Class

5th Class

361 - NM,ebay:Apr 2011

6th Class

184 - WAF:Allan H.

473 - LaGallerie:Jan2008

513 - usmilitariaforum:Dave,LtCol. Tom Gibbons!

888 - militaryaviationartifacts

1271 - NM,Affliated Auctions(liveauctioneers):Dec2010,1947Nov15,MSgt Ralph O. Loving

2156 - GMIC:hugh

2213 - usmilitariaforum:Jack's Son,LtCol. Elgin B. Rittenberry!

2910 - flyingtigerantiques

3691 - NM,MBA Auction(liveauctioneers):Apr2012,1946Dec23,Name?

3696 - flyingtigerantiques

7th Class

15 - coinarchives.com

274 - NM,ebay:Jun2011

910 - WAF:helmetbuyers

1043 - usmilitariaforum:coberry731,Capt. Elmer Berry

1408 - usmilitariaforum:Jack's Son

2245 - NM,ebay:Mar2011

8th Class

127 - flyingtigerantiques

449 - usmilitariaforum:manayunkman, PFC Raymond A. Comfort

563 - LaGallerie:Nov2012,1946Aug??, TSgt Carl H. Weber

9th Class

551 - WAF:Paul V

876 - usmilitariaforum

NM= Manufacturer mark is not available

! with names means rank was awarded after the award.

The numbers is read the other way, so ROC 25th year, is 1936. I have seen a few of these, but I am not sure of the authenticity.

The words below Sun Yatsen relate to the Three Principles. I am not sure of what is below Chiang Kaishek, I see xin seng and the last one not sure of ("new birth ?" or something close to that..).

Just saw one on ebay too.

The ones with 國 before the serial number are Taiwan versions and more common. $200 for those is too much.

Time period also.

Great medal

These are the new generation of reproductions being made and sold on ebay occasionally from China. Already saw one seller (US seller) put a 7th class ribbon on it and it was sold for over $300. Watch out for the 4th class too.

:cheers: good find

this is a double post..

I will add the reverse here.

Just add a ribbon and see where the bidding goes. Oh this is one of the newer versions coming out.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item43b4627072

I would offer, but I spent too much and my budget is at 0 now haha. Plus property taxes are coming in. I don't think they would accept a Striped Tiger order would they??

Don't forget Hong Kong. Many of the lucky ones fled before the communist takeover although I think more left with the clothes on the backs then those that left to Taiwan. Many Chinese websites I see are showing more and more people discovering good stuff hidden away. Most of it is not in good condition, but still out there.

I wonder why many of these threads in this section have not moved into the China section?

Nick, I don't think they will be happy with me printing out colored copies haha

Seriously?!

Personally I think it is way too high

Cheers,

Nick

Next year, with the prices going the way they are, the only thing I can afford is a printout of the medal (and I usually print in B/W).

Remember everybody, auction prices are with people with a lot of money outbidding until they get tired of raising their paddles or those with over spending habits without budgets. Auctions also tend to charge about 10-30% fee to the seller and 10-30% to the bidder.

I wouldn't be surprise if he was persuaded by communist spies to join their side as this happened to many top commanders and were later given top positions in the PRC government for leaving the ROC. Usually if you stayed and did not let them know you wanted to join until after the war was over, lets just say you "learned" new stuff for awhile and became an ordinary citizen with nothing.

I heard the modern ones were given liberally mostly under the previous president. It only made the value of getting the award meaningless. It was something I was told, not sure who received it or why.

Nick, thanks for posting the pictures. There seems to be variations and probably more than one manufacturer in Taiwan. Unless the reverses are the same?

The Order of Brilliant Star is a award of the ROC and there is no "Nationalist version."

It is fake.

Should have a 5 pt star on it.

Looking forward to it Nick!

Feels like this one will be another 10+ pages thread

Hopefully you don't jinx it....ha :whistle:

Yeah it can be a replacement, I am sure with Chiang he probably had more access to the medals if he needs replacements.

To me, I have always thought that if the medals had a polished reverse, it was later 1960s period (after all the mainland made ones were awarded from old stock). The medal toned horribly though. The screw is brass or is it gilded? Also, the ones made before 1949 had transparent blue enamel and you can see the design pattern embossed in the silver underneath; this blue is opaque and you can not see the little design pattern. Just my observation on it...

Today, most ROC medals are dated now with the Minguo year on the reverse along with the serial number.

Thanks Nick for more pictures of the medal. The brooch type looks to be aluminum and would date from about the 1960s to 80s. I am not sure if the government want to admit that one of his medals somehow got away, but then again they may say it might be stolen. Only paper documentation would be good.

The reverse.

There is a 4th class version and a Order of the Blue Sky and White Sun too. Both are not the breast star versions.

Here is a better Cloud and Banner 7th class. It is not the breast badge, which doesn't exist anyways.

It is the medal, just need the ribbon. Looks very good now.