Michael Johnson

The regiment won two George Medals in Italy, both minefield incidents. Sowar Ditto Ram's citation is here: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/37386/supplement/6055/data.pdf  St. John Graham Young R.T.R. attached C.I.H. was the second recipient: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/37185/supplement/3765/data.pdf

Michael

I bought a USN discharge certificate offa eBay - enlisted 1949, discharged 1953, immediate re-up for 4 years..  When I found his veteran's Veteran's Burial on Ancestry it looks like he served from 1943 into the 1970s - WWII, Korea, AND Vietnam.  I'm sending off for his record, and suspect he had quite a rack, ending up as a SCPO.  Could even beat Smart's group.

Michael

"And how do you know I'm addicted?" asked Alice.

"You must be," said the Caterpillar, "or you wouldn't be here."

Gabatgh,

You will find that these things are all over the shop.

Obviously you will get the best price from a family member, if there is one, who is actively searching. If not, providing as much detail as possible will generate interest.

It is always worthwhile to go an Ancestry.com and find out who has a family tree up for your particular man. Do not be put off by anyone who wants it back for free.  Many items leave families for many reasons, and the cry of "It was stolen!"  can be met with "When?  Did you file a police report at the time?"  Ignore police reports filed after the events - they are worthless.  There is a concept in law of "purchaser in good faith without notice".

Michael

I just purchased my FIFTH  named Navy Good Conduct Medal.  I keep telling myself I collect British and Canadian.

Sadly, the cost of a Freedom of Information request in the UK is almost as much as the medal.  For my group to Smart, National Archives sent me his record for free.

Back history:  I spent my youth building model airplanes, including a whole bunch of U.S. Navy 1925-45.  So when a medal to a man who served on USS Hornet (CV-12) from its commissioning comes up, I guess I have to have it.

Michael

I'm pretty sure it's him as he was a Devonport enlistment. Gunner 1944

1939-45 Star (six months at sea on operations), Atlantic Star (another six months service in the Atlantic), Africa Star (service probably in the Mediterranean), Burma Star with clasp for Pacific Star (Far East service Indian Ocean and Pacific), War Medal with Mention in Despatches, Long Service and Good Conduct Medal (15 years' service in the ranks without disciplinary offences or adverse conduct reports.

Rank is that of Lieutenant.  Obviously commissioned after long service. If we could make out the name it might be possible to identify him.

I think it's Lt. Harry Morris Clark who in 1956 was a Commissioned Gunner.

I haven't tracked down his Mention, but I'll try the British Medals Forum - the experts there will probably tell me what he had for breakfast July 2, 1944. 

All in all, that is quite a find!

Michael

Perhaps a Drummer or Musician?  More likely to have carried a short sword.

Michael

1, could be Platelayer, but that is more a railway occupation than an Artillery one.  Not one I've run across in my Indian collecting years.

The Lincolnshire Regiment was in Bermuda in 1914, so could be older. I think by 1943 the helmet flash would have been obsolete. 

Miraculously, given that he was Militia, my father's service record exists.

I don't blame the MO - my father's eyesight was 20/200.

Michael

1 hour ago, Samantha Davis said:

Your poor GF what a thing to happen but with so many men losing their lives during the war maybe he was lucky in a weird kind of way.

All the best,

Sam

Sam, I suspect it was his pension that allowed him to send my father to university (granddad started work before he was 14).  Dad became a very successful corporate lawyer. I followed in his footsteps, but chose an alternative to practice.  This year my son graduates from law school, to make the third generation.  A long way from Bells Close Newcastle!

Michael

Sam, you must be very proud of your grandfather.  My paternal grandfather enlisted in the Canadian Army Service Corps in 1916, got pneumonia on a field day in Toronto, and according to family history, lost an eye when they were attempting to anaethetize him and ether got spilled on his face.  Medical discharge on pension with a Class C discharge pin. My maternal grandfather was French, and was recalled to duty from Canada in 1914.  He was attached to the British Army as an interpreter - until his company, then engaged in the war effort, realized that he was the only one who knew the processes.  After many letters and diplomatic notes the French Army let him go back to Canada.

The Maritime Museum of the Atlantic had a dedicated Halifax Explosion room when i was there some years ago.

Michael

Sam,

Not a mad idea at all.  Sadly I suspect that the CWM is more interested in the Centenary of Vimy. I wonder if the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic http://maritimemuseum.novascotia.ca/ in Halifax could get more traction?  Lots of information there:

 http://maritimemuseum.novascotia.ca/search/node/halifax explosion  

I have a small collection of single medals to men who were on ships at or near Halifax that day.  Still missing HMS Highflyer and HMS Changuinola.  I have two to HMCS Niobe - an R.N.C.V.R. clerk and an R.N. Regulating Petty Officer.  I was able to find a photograph of the latter.  He's the one sitting on the right end of the bench.  Previous service in China in 1900.

On 2/10/2017 at 08:32, paul wood said:

He received the Albert medal, here is the citation.

The KING has further been graciously pleased to approve of the award of the Albert Medal for gallantry in saving life at sea to Leading Seaman Thomas N. Davis, O.N. J.18334 (Dev.), and Able Seaman Robert Stones, O.N. J.29998 (Dev.).

 

On the 6th December, 1917, the French steamer "Mont Blanc," with a cargo of high explosives, and the Norwegian steamer "Imo," were in collision in Halifax Harbour. Fire broke out on the "Mont Blanc" immediately after the collision, and the flames very quickly rose to a height of over 100 feet. The crew abandoned their ship and pulled to the shore. A few minutes later a tremendous explosion took place, and the tug "Musquash" was seen to be on fire forward. The fire was increasing, and there appeared to be a great danger of her getting adrift, and being carried down on to another vessel. As the "Musquash" had a gun and ammunition on board there was danger of a further explosion and consequent loss of life. The Captain of H.M.S. "Highflyer" hailed a private tug and asked her to take the "Musquash" in tow, but as they were unwilling to board the "Musquash " to get her in tow, the tug was brought alongside H.M.S. "Highflyer.'' Leading Seaman Davis and Able Seaman Stones immediately volunteered, and having been transferred by the tug to the burning "Musquash," which had by this time broken adrift, they secured a line from her stern, by means of which she was towed into midstream. The line then parted, and Davis and Stones passed another line from the "Musquash" to the pumping lighter "Lee," which had now arrived. They then both went forward to the burning part, and succeeded in getting to the ammunition, which was by this time badly scorched, pulled it away from the flames and threw it overboard. They then broke open the door of the galley, which was on fire inside, to enable the "Lee" to play her hoses into it. They repeated the same thing with the cabin. By their work they made it possible to subdue the fire and save further damage and loss of life. At any moment whilst they were on board the "Musquash " the ammunition might have exploded. 

 Also Service Papers which shows he entered the Chinese customs service on leaving the Navy in 1927. He served during the second war in the Merchant Navy and would have received WWII as well as the Albert Medal and WWI medals he had already received. I hope this is of help.

Paul

Lots of good books on the Halifax Explosion, which is a topic that fascinates me. See here: 

 for a post that illustrates how one family was affected.

Michael

Back in the day when the wife and I had time to do things, we go downtown.  When we meet up, Terry says, "The antique store has a badge you might be interested in."  So, with no great hope I go to have a look. 

A Canadian Militia helmet, with Pattern 1908 Star Plate to the 31st Regiment.  Traces of gold paper (amateur theatricals?).  Sadly missing the screw attachment for the spike/button, but 100% authentic ("au jus" for our French friends).

And how much? 

$35!

Just now, peter monahan said:

And when he got one he spent it on British shako plates of the Napoleonic period, which I believe still live in a shoe box in Casa Johnson.  Michael is 'canny wi' his sil'er', as the Scots say.  But then, he comes of Yorkshire stock, so no wonder! 

25 cents per week Grade 1 to 8; $5.00 grade 9 to 12; $10.00 grade 13.  No allowance in Uni.

Northumberland and Cumberland, Sir!  Not a Yorkie!

And sadly my shako for R.N.R. Scout Brigade of Fort George is Belgic.  If it were stovepipe, I'd put on my nice brass one, bought at Jack Shepherd's some 40 years or more ago.

Quite rightly.  "Type" collectors who split groups for one medal were/are the bane of our hobby.  It's bad enough when groups are split within families ("One silver for you, one silver for me; one bronze for you, one bronze for me."), but that is understandable.

The sad fact is that many groups will never be re-assembled.  But that Victory holds the key to the man's story.  And in some cases the story continues.  I bought a 1914-15 Star and Victory to a man in the Royal Naval Reserve.  His service record showed that he had been discharged with tuberculosis and died very soon after.  I got his death certificate, and put the case forward to the Commonwealth War Graves through the "In From the Cold Project".  It was accepted and now a CWGC headstone is being erected: http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/75451073/MURPHY, JAMES

Michael

Many do feel that way.  However many British War Medals were sold for their silver value and smelted.  If you are collecting to a theme, Victory Medals are the least expensive way to collect First War British medals.

Michael

5 hours ago, Paul C said:

I have given some thought to my focus of which British Victory Medals I would like to collect. Please let me know if this is possible.

I would like to collect Victory medals named to men in the Royal Navy and see if I can get a medal to at least one person who served on every battleship. A few questions:

When I see a medal named to a man in the RN what are the online sources to see what ship he served on?

Does this collecting focus make sense?

I really appreciate all the help and advice from everyone.

Last one... In the above post there is a reference to BWM. What is that?

RN Seamen's papers are available on Ancestry.com, or British National Archives. It would probably be cheaper to take out a monthly subscription with ancestry.co.uk and just get Britain-only rather than a world subscription.  The search page is: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=60522.  You could purchase credits to search a few medals.  For ships, just Google HMS XXXX, and you will probably find what you're looking for. e.g. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=HMS+Queen+Mary

This site is great for further information: http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritishShips-Dittmar3WarshipsA.htm

Some ships log books have been transcribed: http://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-LogBooksWW1.htm

Good luck!  And if you find any sailor who was on HMS Highflyer in December 1917, please tell me! (Not a battleship).

Michael

3 hours ago, peter monahan said:

Agreed, Cazk.  My very first medla was a sliver BWM, one of 40-50 in a box on their way to a smelter back in the '80s when two brothers in texas tried to corner the silver market.  'Pte R. Milner, W Yorkshire Reg't'.  $10.00 Cdn, which was a dollar below its bullion value!  It would probably cost me upwards of $100 today, as he was a first day of the Somme casualty, though it took me years to confirm that.  Now even singles to corps are getting up there.

 I'd go with a unit, or a battle or campaign to narrow the field, were it me.  And hold out for something special.   I saw a single BWM to a Captain recently, for $100.00, I think.  Turns out he was a farm boy from the UK who joied the Cdn Expeditionary Force, tried 2 or 3 times to pass exams for officer training, finally got a commission, was commended for bravery and died a month after joining his new unit.  I may grab it yet!

Peter, my records are that it was a 1914-15 Star. He was 15th Bn. which took heavy casualties July 1, 1916.

Michael

No allowance!

Well, she's changed just a bit since these were taken.  Then again, so has Peter.

Try here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Malaysian_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

I suspect that this list was complied by someone in Malaysia, possibly with the Police Force, given the amount of detail.

Michael