Stijn David

Hello,

Is it possible that you made a typo? => in the heading you mention the Hamburg Hanseatic cross. In the actual question you mention the L?beck one.

The info on the L?H ones is given in the L?beck roll thread ;-)

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Not a L?H one, just checked those

Cordial greetings,

ps: superior picture for sure, thanks for sharing

Hello,

Great thread and indeed great info, i was going by my memory and chats with my friend dr. Sauerwald in the past year. I should have been a bit more correct and also get my written archives with it.

The said is indeed true, before the institution of the grandcross the 1 e class was given, after the institution the GC was awarded, etc ....

Cordial greetings,

Hi Igor,

From the named persons only 3 did get the L?H, they are:

* Bartenbach Karl => 06.06.1917 as a Korvettenkapit?n

* Moraht Robert => 17.04.1918 as a Kapit?n-Leutnant

* Howaldt Hans => 27.04.1918 as a Kapit?n-Leutnant

I hope this helps

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

1) R.A.O = Roter Adler Orden = Red Eagle order (my mistake, yes, yes i should have given the direct transliteration )

2) Yes, correct, but i have to add that that was the case when the new Black eagle holder did not have the R.A.O. 1 e class already. Iff he had it no second award was made offcoarse

3) Can't answer that, as the R.A.O. was not entered there isn't a date known.

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Iff a black eagle order was attributed a Red Eagle order (1 e class set) was automaticly bestowed upon the recipient. That R.A.O. was however not recorded in the offcial lists.

So, iff your person was awarded the black eagle order he did get the R.A.O. but no trace of the last wil be found in the official lists.

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Thank you very much for showing these close-up pictures. A excellent bird.

With the makersmark present this is what we call the Type 1.1. A

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Very nice => and especially me like that bird on the right

Please do show some close-ups on that lovely C.E.Juncker Type 1.1 (is it a A or a B?) glider pilots badge

Cordial greetings and thanks in advance,

Hello,

Announcement:

This sad case has come towards an end. The glider pilots badge has been traced when it did pop up several months ago and thanks towards a honoust collector and dealer the badge could be recuperated and has now been returend towards the original owner.

It did cost me almost 5 months of hard work but it did pay of => yes my friends, this is a great day. A stolen badge has been returend towards the original owner

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Wel, wel, wel => was Beutin mayby a Hauptmann during WWI?

Iff so then Herr Beutin did earn his L?H while acting with the Landsturm Infanterie-Regiment 9 with the date of 2/09/1917

So my dear friend Ricky, you see => he turned up after all

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

I can't confirm Urbach right now => the Letter "U" is still to be listed. But soon my friend, real soon

Great picture for sure, thanks for showing

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Foltmann did earn his L?H as a Hauptmann (Acting with the Generalstab IX AK) with date of 02/10/1918

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Can anything be found on the named person: Rudolf Saulmann ?

He was a Belgian docter who did participate in the 1870/71 war against France. For those actions he earned the EK 2 nd. class on non-combat. ribbon. This award was first allowed to be worn on belgian territory in 1895.

See also the following thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=26510

Does this person also show up in the German ranklists? Or can any other info be found on this former docter?

Cordial greetings + thanks for helping,

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for the search => yes, i have this one also confirmed directly from Germany. That is the one i did rediscover in the Belgian archive.

I wonder iff more info on the good dr. can be found? As he was in the German army at that time he also held a officers rank or am i mistaking? Iff so then he might appear in the ranklists, etc....

So at least, one Belgian civilian (at least he was a Belgian in 1895) did earn a EK 2 with white and black ribbon

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Now you guys need to help me out a bit as i have found something very strange. I was today once again active in the archives to work on one of my sideprojects.

The sideproject is namely to list all German awardes rendered towards Belgians between 1831 and 1914. And yes the work is quite well progressing and sometimes one does find quite strange things.

Today i encountered a so called 'Auto-Port' (= the agreement from the Belgian state that a certain foreign award is allowed to be worn.

I was working on the year 1895 and did find the following:

Mr. Le docteur R.Saulmann ? Bruxelles, dependant ? ?tre autoris? ? porter la Croix de Fer de 2me Classe qui lui n?t? d?cern?e par S.M. l'Empereur d'Allemagnen Roi de Prusse

So we have now the following chances:

1) The good dr. was once a german who did fight for his land during the war 1870/71 and switch country's late rone to land in belgium and get the Belgian civilianship

2) The good dr. was always a Belgian who did fight in the German Army during the war 1870/71

3) This is a mistake and it was meanth to name a different German award.

Now is there anyone who can solve this riddle?

Cordial greetings,

ps: oh yes, the project once finished will be published in a bookform

Hello,

Thank you RIck for those scans, i am verifying them during the comming days

Anyway, is tehre anyone who does posses a Soldbuch with a L?H entered?

Cordial greetings,

Hello Jef,

Nope, 45 = "Franz Jungwirth - Wien"

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

And here a bit of the backgroundhistory as can be found on the net:

http://www.wdr.de/studio/aachen/lokalzeit/.../domwache.jhtml

So boys and gals, next time you see a lonely KVK think twice before simply laughing at such a humble award. The person who did earn it once did probably risk his life to help his fellow civilians and the cross you ar elooking at can be the simple remambrance of the tragic happenings during that period => so remember

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

And here is the reverse of this cross.

I can assure you that this one is a treasure for my collection

Cordial greetings,

Hello Paul,

I can't say iff he is the youngest recipient, most probably not. All i can say is that when one does know the history and background of these youngsters that a award as this one does get a very significant place in history.

Here is the Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2 e Klasse with Swords.

This cross is awarded on 30.04.1944, it was so called for his efforts, and i quote ' f?r tapferen Einsatz bei dem Terrorangriff auf Aachen am 11.04.1944'.

The caption on the award paper (there is never given a real award document) does in fact only does mention 1 particular day, the date: 11.04.1944 was the day in wich the historical city of Aachen was very heavely hit. The Feuerlosschgr?ppe Dom was actually grounded in july 1941 and existed besides the leader (dr. Buchkremmer) out of approx 18 youngsters between 13 and 16 years old at that time.

This squad of youngsters did contain at its maximum 16 boys and 2 girls. The youngsters did come and go during its existance during WWII and there where approx. arround 10 youngsters involved in the firesquad actions at the same time arround the 'Dom'.

It is thanks towards their brave action that the 'Dom' is today still in existance and IMHO iff one does read the book" Aachens Dom im Feuersturm - Die tausend kriegsn?chte der M?dchen und Jungen der Domwache 1941 - 1945 " this does make one think quite differently on what the many civilians did sacrifice to help otehr people and even a today lowely regared award is suddenly a treasure, at least in my eyes.

Therefore, here is the cross - maker marked : 45 in the ring.

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Today i received a package after a rather long waiting period. The package does contain what is commonly disregarded and known within the collecting world as a KVK 2 e class with swords.

Am i now going crazy that i suddenly love KVK's? Well yes, probably i am

But no need to worry => it is a cross with a very historical significance.

The cross was awarded during 1944 towards a youngster (16 years old at that time) for his participation and actions in saving the 'Dom - Aachen'.

The Dom is today protected as Unesco Wold Heritance, and it did survive the very violant second world war. To potect that cathedral a grouping of youngsters formed a saving unit who did through the complete war protect the church. This grouping did go into world history as the "Domwache".

The content of the package is the one and only awarded KVK 2 e class towards a former member of this grouping. The rest of the youngsters did earn the Luftschutz Medal 2 nd. class for their actions. This KVK did make it into my hands directly from the former owner.

Yes, yes => i will keep you guys a bit in tention before a picture is shown.

For me a superb action wich resulted in the awarding of a award, brave civilian kids wich do deserve my deepest respect

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

And the work is never ending => but we do work stubournly on this project. I can give you guys once again a small update on the advance:

Totally listed names at this point : 9.822

ANd now lets focus a bit on the flying units trough WWI and the L?H awards towards these aerial branch:

Totally (from the listed 9.822 entry's) towards Aerial troops: 116

The breakdown for the flying guys does look as following:

A) Normal flying untis (for example, Jasta, etc...) : 51

B) Marine flying units : 27

C) Luftschiffer : 30

D) Marine - Luftschiffer : 6

E) Balloon guys : 2

And yes, it is not finished yet, when a total estimated of arround 13.000 we still have to list then a small 20 %. But we are working on and on ....

Cordial greetings,

Hello Rick,

Thank you for that additional info on the Freikorps Hasse

Is it for example known wich company's did produce the L?h crosses? Did anyone ever find one with a makers mark or somthing that does point into the direction of a certain producer?

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Yes most probably a delayed award for WWI actions, but who knows?

Anyway, certain is that he (Leutnant der Reserve Eggerding Huber-Georg) was awarded his L?H with the date of 08/12/1920 as serving with the Freikorps Hasse.

Anyone ever heard of the Freikorps ?

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Yes, yes, indeed => Luppe did get the L?H.

He earned the L?H as a 'Fregatten-Kapit?n' - entered on the list: 14/06/1916

Cordial greetings,