Mervyn Mitton

This had just arrived and I thought it might be of interest. This pattern of shako - similar to the Union cap of the U.S. civil war period - seems to have been adopted by some of the Scottish Regiments - this example being for the Highland Light Infantry. I am not sure of it's exact date of introduction - perhaps someone can tell us ? - but this still has the label inside and clearly dates it to 1900. This is the Boer War - but again, did they wear this in the field ? The eternal problem for militaria collectors - one question answered, justs leads to another...

Stuart - one could never be bored looking at these lovely helmets. Would the two State badges I put on , be for blue or, white helmets ?

Victorian Helmet Plate for the State of Queensland. This is quite a rare item in that on the reverse it has the lead seal of acceptance from the Military Board that passed the pattern for the Army. When a decision was made, a number were fixed with these seals and sent to interested departments. For example, one would go to Quartemasters Dept., one to the maker, one to the Divisional HQ, etc.. Then, if a sub-standard badge was produced, it could be compared with the accepted original. Both of these badges would have been gilt originally.

These were posted a little time ago - however, I think it is worth repeating them on our Australian thread. This is a Victorian (pre-1901) Helmet Plate for the State of Victoria Militia. The helmet was the blue pattern - similar to a police helmet.

Stuart - next time we talk, or email - I will tell you about your above comment !! I have been amazed at the response to this thread - we are up to 55 posts - I think it has gone far from the simple 'help on badges'. I would like to make a suggestion - and what we finally do must be a concensus opinion - why don't we ask Nick to change the title to a more descriptive one and continue posting everything Australian with a military link ? There is just so much useful info. already on here and as a continuing thread it would become an available source of information - for example - just look at the listing for ref. books ... With the new index it will all be available to anyone looking it up. My suggestion for a title: AUSTRALIAN MILITARY HISTORY OR, AUSTRALIAN MILITARY RESEARCH A Continuing thread... Some history on equipment Let's have your suggestions - if you think we've reached 'the end of the road' then the post can pass into that 'great archive in the sky' ! (Gee ! I'm nearly as corny as Rick can be..)

I'm going to settle down on one of my 'home' days and thoroughly enjoy reading this. When I was at Geelong , they concentrated on the explorations of Australia - many of our 'old boys' and their families had taken part in them and they had been pioneering families - however, the military history was not covered. Had my Father not stopped me going to Duntroon, I expect I would have known a lot more - but , it was not to be - so, I know this thread will be interesting. Thankyou.

I think Leigh has raised a point re. the Defence Medal and the Merchant Navy - worthwhile investigation since it could change a number of medal bars ? Where do we go from here - perhaps someone in UK could contact Min. of Defence - or, Medal Year Book ? Maybe he never went into the Pacific - there is something about not getting both - I will look it up and come back - and Darrell what a lovely , complete, group. You always seem to have such good paperwork and that is often harder to find then the medals.

Khira (?) Very nice to hear from someone in the Phillipines - I'm sure other members will say - hello ! I hope you will enjoy being a member. Tell us something about yourself - what do you collect and what are your militaria interests ? Mervyn

By great co-incidence I have found that the first badge is the avatar for one of our members !!! Go to; Collectors Corner The Rick Research Collectors Help Forum Hallmarks for Gold & Silver for UK Thread 12 - KIR Germany When you contact him, don't forget to tell us what the badge is for ?

Never thought of Prison Service thank goodness for experts. Paul - now you need the bullion version for red tunic ?

Hi - Leigh, nice to have you back. His son said the originals were lost - but who really knows with the passing of time. I didn't know either, that the MN were not entitled to the Defence medal. What about all the seamen who never left Home waters ? I think this would be an interesting point to clear-up - however, as you spotted - it was stated on the awards form.

Thanks - James. Makes things a little clearer - although I did point out that they are not an Order. I thought I had seen overseas dignitaries being given the accolade - I suppose when you see the decoration being handed over, that one assumes the full procedure has been followed. The KB insignia is not common - despite it being the most common award. I think families like to keep them. We have had a number over the years - they always sell quickly - probably people awarding themselves a knighthood...

Hi - Leigh. Yes, as War Lord comments, they did for bulk items , sometimes, try to dodge paying the hallmark charges. However, as you will know, most badges of the period are hallmarked. I would like to comment on reference books - if you are a silver collector or, have an interest in old hallmarks - then you need a good ref. book. I find Jackson's Hallmarks (isbn 1 85149 169 4) to be excellent, since it identifies the dealers marks. Whilst there have been many assay offices and marks, most are for the serious collector. The ones I showed above will help for the those items you most commonly come across. Also, remember that Govt. issue do not have to be hallmarked. Many British Medals are 1oz. of sterling silver and even if in very poor condition are worth money - at this date 1oz. is worth approx. £5 (31 gms - $8). It is worth keeping a list of those that were issued in silver. (WW2 Br. issue - also Aust. NZ, and Sth. Africa - apart from the Africa Medal - were coin metal - cupro-nickel.)

Paul - I agree with you not British - on the other hand, the Crown is similar to the Hanoverian - perhaps King's legion ? I don't know much about these and you are probably right.

Peter - I missed that you are a new member - welcome. You have the added advantage of being an Aussie - or are you a Rhodie or, Sth. African ? Dudley was 2 i/c of SA Intell. - he was a full col. but has now gone with his wife and sister to UK - I can always put you in touch with him. I think he did a great job with his Rhodesian ref. books - I find them invaluable. He has also done the first in a series on S.A. badges and medals - Owen will have to look out. Where do you live in Aust. - if you say Perth - then I know your from here........

I was wrong - I thought it was going to be a decorated truncheon ! Fairly rare with the engraving for Staffordshire - dates from the 1850's and is almost certainly supplied by Parker Field and I think you will find Hiatt's in Birmingham, made it for them. Use boot polish on the scabbard and the brass will polish up nicely - I only use gun oil on my blades. The belt to support the frog was a cross belt - over the right shoulder. This style of hilt guard is known as the 'D' pattern - the earlier ones had a 'stirrup' hilt guard. The blade is double fullered - being sharpened on either side. When the Chief Constable's ordered swords it cost another 2/6d to have an engraving - so, most have blank blades. For insurance , I would estimate £350 - £400. Congratulations - a great addition to your Staffs. collection.

I was pleased to see this thread - posted before I joined - it contains some interesting berets and badges. Most of the badges - apart from SAS and Selous are still available - however, the berets are becoming scarce. One of the reasons camo is hard to find , is because it was illegal in South Africa - and this is where most of it landed-up. For anyone needing info. - or, starting a collection, Col. Dudley Wall's two books are invaluable. Let me know if anyone needs the contact details?

Rob - you and Tony will have to start the flashes - never had an interest in them. However, your posting of the book on old badges - (yet another one I would like !!! ) could be a good topic ? I've got a couple of old ones - Victoria and Q'land, helmet plates. I posted them quite a while ago, but if I redo them it might spark some interest? The problem with the historical things is that they cost so much and the youngsters go for more modern pieces. (Gee..that ages me !!) I know Stuart has a lovely plate on a Wolsely - West Aust.. Do either of you have any historical items ?

Have just added a para. to explain the difference with Continental and U.S. silver. (In case the first page is not big enough to read, I am repeating it here.)