Mervyn Mitton

Ed - no one ever gave me a tear gas canister for my birthday !! Are the leg irons and handcuffs US patterns ? Surely - even in the US knuckle dusters must be illegal - they are classed as an offensive weapon in the UK and are an 'absolute' (one with no excuse) offense. Leigh, did you ever have anyone carrying one?

On the opposite end from the key, should be stamped Hiatts - they were in Birmingham(UK) and made most restraints. The whistle is fairly early - could be 1930's or, even earlier. Many householders kept this pattern to call for 'help' - but a police one will often have the name of the Force. Also, in this case the tunic chain is still with it - and they were Police issue. I am sure you know that the hook goes through the top button hole - on the old tunics that went to the neck, it was the second button. Old tunics had a special whistle pocket just inside the tunic - later ones it went into the left top tunic pocket. Before they abandoned whistles they had started chroming them. Another point - older ones often have a key attached - this was for the old Police boxes - but, only Dr. Who uses them now ! (UK tv sci-fi series)

That's the first WW1 lapel in for Staffordshire that I remember seeing - nice and crisp. Hope the 'building' is going well and you 'drowned ' that woman??????

A nice award. Ed, the key - is that a generic pattern for getting through all doors - or, just for certain usage ?

Ed - further down the page you will see a post 'My Early Police Days' - look on this and you will see Robin Lumsden posted a picture when he was an officer. He is wearing the same cap, braid and badge - so your friend was right about it being for a Chief Inspector. UK usually, would have black braid. Perhaps Robin could tell us what Supt's and Ch. Supt's have on their peaks in Scotland ?

Leigh - never heard it called that before - but a fitting description. We used to shape our Aussie slouch hat with the help of a kettle - I think we also soaked them and used clothes pegs ?

Thomas - an interesting medal - I presume the initials stand for Church of England Temp. Soc.. - I wonder where Collyhurst is ? The Victorians never fail to amaze me , the way they gave out silver awards - seemingly 'at the drop of a hat'. I posted - some time ago - a pair of military Temp. medals - but, I don't think many people collect them. At that time they were a drunken lot and Gin wasn't known as 'Mothers' Ruin' without cause.

I see now that this is Portsmouth City Helmet - and not Dockyard. The town police had no authority inside the dockyard. This is a very early truncheon for the Dockyard Police - V1R - means Queen Victoria 1st. - however, they stopped putting the 1st. on after about 1840. Several other dockyards also used this style of truncheon - it is weighted with lead at the top.

With your background, thought you might like to see what started the Military Police in Britain. Prior to the Royal Military Police - who were not formed until after the start of WW1 - policing for the army was carried out by the Provost Staff Corps. This example has George 5th Crown and cypher and was carried by a sgt at one of the ports in Nth. France, where the British first went ashore.

So good speagle to have a new 'face' - you must have a lot of photos and stories to put under the World Police section? Two questions - may we have a name - can't keep calling you this - also, where and, what are the tri-cities ? Please keep posting - good pieces. Mervyn

You obviously like Scottish - not sure of the vintage of this WPC's 'bowler' - I'm sure Leigh can help . Does it have the special protective inner liner. The original police who manned the dockyards in Victorian times, were all drawn from 'A' Division of the Metropolitan Police. I'm not sure of the date when they set-up a special force.

Nice Scottish senior officer's - however, I can't read the other cap - is it Norfolk ?

Leigh - why did he 'punch' you off your bike - sounds like a good story ? Are all three of those uniforms RIC?

The Royal Order that Ilja has posted is interesting. It shows a typically shaped Swazi battle axe - the present Zulu King carries a silvered version in place of a sceptre. The pineapple surround represents their main crop - visitors from Swazi always bring these big pineapples as gifts. Delicious !

Thanks Matt - With the background, he had to have existed - as you say may have been retired. I like your little sign off - goes back to the War years and Itma - I wonder how many members today will know what it stands for ???

You'll find a set to WA - be positive.. Over the years I always had a 'wish' list for Police items - and by the time I stopped collecting I had found most of them - just takes patience and sometimes - deep pockets ! We have the same thing here in SA with inter Provincial rivalry - Durban is known as 'the last outpost' (of Colonialism) so, we all 'hate' Capetonians' - but only in fun. I enjoyed your posting on the Regt.- a little deep for me, but well researched and interesting. I had thought originally that you were going to write on early explorations throughout Australia

There is one further item that I will add to this post. That is the Admiralty Oar. Carried only by a few senior police - mainly from pre-1829 - and officials of the Admiralty Courts , the oar is usually within the casing of a silver tipstaff - surmounted by the Royal Crown. When used the crown is usually unscrewed, put inside the casing - and the oar screwed into it's place. With this authority any ship could be seized in British - and our Colonies overseas - waters. In emergency the tipstaff (as the official was called ) could summon help from any British warship - and this would be given immediately. Certainly, one of the strongest symbols ever created. Some years ago the Greenwich Maritime Museum, published a booklet on Admiralty Oars and it showed the numbers, still known, to be under 20 ! At one time I had about 5 - however, I have sold most of them - have one very special one for the High Constable of Liverpool, but I don't have a picture here. What I am showing, as an example, is an oar for a water bailiff. He would have had control over rivers and inland waterways and this small oar -about 4 inches (10cm) hung from a chain around his neck. The crown is for George 4th. - it has the Admiralty fouled anchor, to show authority over water and has the number 4 beneath. This was King George 4th. - 1820 - 1830.

I mentioned Walrus ivory - that and elephant ivory, were the only two forms acknowledged by the British Govt. and you had to pay a special import tax on them. The Ivory warehouse was at St. Katherine's Dock - next to Tower Bridge - and all ivory had to go there first. This unusual tipstaff was for the Constable of the Ivory House and is rare in that the Crown is of Walrus and the handle of Elephant. Probably , about 1800 - for George 3rd. and has the Arms of the City of London on the wooden shaft.

This gives the FID a comparison in size to a truncheon - which is about 17 inches long (43cm)

I often wonder why the Naval and RAF sub-forums don't get more posts ? I have seen other posts from ex-Naval and Marine members - surely, you all have interesting photos of your ships and deployments? May I suggest a few topics, that I know I, would find of interest - yet know nothing about. Modern quick firing guns - no major ships seem to carry 'proper' guns now. Ballistic missiles - why can't a ship to ship, be used against shore or planes ? I read that Britain is building a new aircraft carrier - yet nothing seems to be in the papers. When is it due - how big will it be - and, what will it fly (and don't you dare reply - planes !!) The modern subjects are endless... O.K. - three weeks since the last post, so I'm going to fill the gap. This item dates back to the early days of the British Navy - sailing ships , with all of their ropes needed something to prise ropes apart - it was called a FID and came to point that could be pushed into the knot to loosen it free. They were often also, carried as a personal protection weapon on board ship, by warrant officers - such as the Bosun. They were usually of wood. With the 1790's came an enormous expansion of the British Navy , to deal with Napoleon and his European conquests. There can be no doubt that it was only England's sea supremacy which saved us from invasion. The problem was - that in 1800 - the population of England, Wales and Scotland numbered under 15 million people - and those who wanted to be in the Army or, Navy had probably already joined. One way of increasing the numbers of seamen, was that Magistrates gave criminals the choice of Transportation, prison or, the Navy - usually they took the worst decision and joined the Navy. Parliament gave authority for Press Ganging - or, forced joining and parties of seamen scoured the Countryside looking to 'impress' (or, make join) unfortunate town and country people. Parties of press gang also boarded incoming merchant ships and seized men - although , they were supposed to be exempt. These parties of seamen would be under an officer or, a warrant officer - sometimes both. Also - dependent on the Captain - the wt. officer carried a fid with the name of the ship - or, the Naval fouled anchor. This was an authority, as well as a weapon. The FID shown here is the only one known to be made from a walrus tusk - although, I expect, there were other examples. The Naval fouled anchor was probably made on board from melted silver coins. A very rare example.

Maybe - but still get a price !! Are your two identical to mine - that would prove a pattern was established. From the rough casting I would think they were made in India?

Jamie - a very rare helmet, in exceptional condition. I have never seen a Garda helmet before - only caps, the shape is weird - seems to have the back at both front and back. I suppose they wore it for a short period - rather like the Scottish Police, with their helmets discontinued in the 1950's. Have you seen other examples of these - could it have been experimental - after all, the purpose of the 'rose' is to stop water going through the vent holes?

Jamie - the badge is a lovely design and , look to be silver. They had to change from 6 to 2 panel at some time - and helmets had so many different shapes and materials in Victorian times. The test - has to be, does it all look contemporary? Hopefully, some one else will have some examples.