Mervyn Mitton

Thankyou. I was nearly right !!

Ross Mather asked if I had any Welsh truncheons and when I was looking for some I came across this picture - some of the truncheons are interesting and I will list them. At one time there would have been over 40 in any drawer. From top - left: 1. brass weighted short truncheon William 1V (1830-37) 3. Bradford Borough Police 1868. This was when Sein Fein (IRA) started and they planned to seize weapons at Chester Barracks and start an armed up-rising in Ireland. Thousands of special constables were sworn in all over the UK and the date 1868 is common on S.C.'s truncheons. I will post the side door panel from a 'Black Maria' - old name for a horse drawn prisoners waggon. The two leaders had been arrested and were on their way to Court in Manchester - their accomplices ambushed the Black Maria and killed the Sgt. in charge. The two leaders escaped and went to New York - they were never captured, however, the men who attacked the van were hanged at Manchester Belle Vue Prison. (Didn't bring the innocent Sgt. back though !) 5. Glamorganshire Police truncheon - Victorian - prob. about 1880's. From top - right : 1. Standard teak issue truncheon - in use until the ASP took over. 2. Swansea Borough Police. Again, Victorian (1837-1901). 4. Well painted George 1V truncheon - with coat-of-arms. However, I can't remember for which town. 5. William 1V 6. A nice short Manchester truncheon - pre-dates formation of City Police, so probably George 1V 7. Very interesting old decorated truncheon for Bristol. I had this from the family, and he had taken part in the Bristol Riots (not sure of the date - prob. mid 1850's, or, later. He was badly hurt and his truncheon splintered when he hit someone - so I hope they were as well! I was told he eventually returned to work, but tied up his old truncheon and always carried it on duty I hope these are of some interest? Mervyn

I think Maitre d'Armes means master of arms in the town of St. Etienne?

I believe this to be the French Lebel bayonet - date on blade shows approved pattern in 1886. Was this for the Minie rifle , or , musket?

I believe this to be the French Lebel bayonet - date on blade shows approved pattern in 1886. Was this for the Minie rifle , or , musket?

Thankyou. The bottom one is for the County of Essex and has the three swords -or, seaxes, for their proper name, in the bottom cartouche. The truncheon is Georgian - prob. Geo.1V (1820-1830). Mervyn

re. Tom's comment on a leather stick being carried - I cannot recall seeing one, unless it was like a riding crop for the horse ? Can you recall any other details - it just 'might' have represented a staff of office ? Jamie - when are you going to post some more of your sepecial helmets - with Ross now joined we should see some exceptional items. Mervyn

Brian - this is a 1st. WW duty armband and was worn around the upper left arm. (exceptional cond. !) However, the horizontally striped band (without the name plaque) would have been very similar to the early Victorian ones. The duty arm bands were worn on the left sleeve of the tunic or, greatcoat - and the sleeves on both had sewn loops to stop the band from falling off.

"Ask - and ye shall receive !" Leigh, Thankyou so much for that info. - greatly appreciated - and the speed of the reply !! I paid Rands 100 = approx.?7 - does that seem reasonable? One other question - were they issued individually - as per name and no.on blade and , to everyone overseas? Again, thankyou. Mervyn

I woder if any member can help with more info. on this knife - which I have just purchased. The photo is a little dark, so, details as follows - about 10 inches overall, heavy and with Br. services broad arrow and - presumably - the man's name and number (next photo.) I did not get a sheath or, a frog . Is this a standard issue - like the old WW" folding knives - or, is it for a specialist unit. Thankyou for any assistance. Mervyn

Sorry, I forgot to answer your question on duty armbands. They were present from when the Met. first marched out in 1829 and their purpose was very simple. Police Orders of the day, laid down that the 'new' police were on duty 24 hours a day and would wear uniform at all times. To distinguish between when they were 'on' or, 'off' duty they carried the arm band and put it on when 'on' duty. The stripes were horizontal. I am not sure of the exact date they changed to vertical stripes, but it was sometime in the 1880's (I stand to be corrected on this , if anyone has diff. info.). I was first issued with a felt type armband and in ,I think, 1970, we changed to nylon ones. They were taken away in 1972 and we all felt annoyed, as it was part of the uniform. Only City of London retained theirs - which are red and white vertical stripes. Will post my old ones. Did Specials ever wear them - not sure ?

I'm a little out of date on Met. current full dress - the last Trooping of the Colour I paraded for was in 1974 - it was the only thing I ever volunteered for - and that was only because my Div. 'H' - stood in front of the Guards Memorial - so, we had the best view !!! The Deputy - or, sometimes , Asst. Commissioner, who was in charge of the parade, would ride on horseback, along the Mall 15 minutes before the Troops - he would be accompanied by his his sgt. orderly, from Mounted Branch. The Sgt. was in No.1 dress uniform and the 'boss' in cocked hat, full dress uniform , with Austrian frogging - and, if raining, a beautiful horse cloak with velvet collar - this was stretched out to sit across the back of the horse. From my re-collection , I think he wore a dress sword. One must remember that the Commissioner is the most senior police officer in the UK and has an equivalent army rank of full general . He wears as rank - crown,star and crossed tipstaffs in a wreath. The Dep.Comm. wears crown, two stars (side by side) and tipstaffs. His equivalent is a Lt. Gen.. The asst. comms wear a star, over the tipstaffs - equiv. of major generals. I would think with today's changing of values, that he probably rides a bike now and in shirt sleeve order !!! Inspectors' and supts. carried swords until about the 1870's - they are now very rare - I will post one soon. Mervyn

Another Andy May (in South Africa) original. This shows a Met . P.C. in 1870 - carrying this pattern of sword. Each Station had it's own armoury of swords and pistols. These could be issued when required, or, when asked for by the constable - the station sgt. or, duty officer was responsible. It is not generally known that as late as the 1930's a constable could request a firearm if patrolling a very dangerous beat.

Note the bars on grip.

I promised to send another police sword. This is the pattern for Thames River Police from 1798 and for the London Metropolitan Police from 1829. Unlike the Counties pattern, it is longer, not so curved and has bars on the guard. This is dated 1867 - when the Met. ordered new weapons for the Irish problem. (That should get some people going !!) Two following pictures. Mervyn

Cost me ?35 to have an IT engineer come-in to show me !! Try to down load a programme called IRFANVIEW it links directly from GMIC browser - and now I know how to use it - my charges are very reasonable !!!

Three Scottish towns - or, cities had High Constables. Edinburgh, Leith and Perth. I am afraid this photo is a little cluttered - many of the pieces have been sold - however, the long staff in the middle - has a gold coloured centre and arms at each end, is for the Perth High Constables. Will try to get a photo for EHC - but, I have to depend on visitors to take photos now - and how do you explain which one of 400/500 you want - especially when you can't remember them clearly !!! Mervyn

Why did we ever stop doing this !

denalex Your last post didn't come out - only the repeat bit. I should have said 'welcome to GMIC' - although I'm only a new member myself. Mervyn

Please post details and photos and hopefully, I will be able to help. Yes - there is a very good ref. book - I wrote it !!! 'The Policeman's Lot' Published by Quiller Press in 1985. There are copies in most libraries and under the title, a number of booksellers sell copies or, I probably have some spare ones in Bournemouth. I look forward to seeing the pictures. Mervyn

Interesting pair of WW1 private purchase field binoculars - name and date on case (next picture ) was for 1916 - so he was in time for the Somme - poor devil ! I was told he was a subaltern in the Royal Scots Fusiliers - it would be interesting to know what happened to him. Mervyn

Thought these South African Railway badges might be of interest to the railway buffs - if there are in the GMIC? The cap badge with crown, probably dates from 30's or, 40's - the others are after 1964, when SA left the Commonwealth. The shoulder epaulettes are for a first class station, but not the very top such as Capetown or Jo'burg. I don't know much else about them - perhaps someone can give more history? Mervyn

Wow ! 5 guineas must be worth at least ?1000 today ? Very interesting article - always good to be reminded of our history . The past shapes the future. Mervyn