hagahr

n

just i case one thinks only jeweler where responsible fore the patriotic stuff around

here some picture from a ebay find

the manufacturer is not known to me

but the core is one you wont see all to often ,,just seen it one time before.

a nice catch ,,

regards kay

its possible .

according to my period jeweler book there two methods

revers electrolytically

and cold DE- Golding with acids

but those are the old way's ..

there must be enough modern time old school jewelers around able to help you out

regards kay

as there are enough EK grabboids who don''t feel that way,as fore them there are no holes left and the world is perfect

regards kay

thanks Christer ,,,,glad you like it .

As an amateur I find this discussion very interesting, and one thing strikes me .... I tend to agree with Uwe that only a EK produced during 1914-1924 would be a original 1914 cross . But how can anyone be sure that is wasn´t produced in 1925, 1926, or into the thirtiees ?

How long did the manufacturers used the 1914 tools before tthey started with new ones ??

Interesting

Christer

hy Crister ,,there are many assumptions,opinions, about that as well

in this EK1 case the L12 mark is the tell tell tale

as the LDO numbers started to appear 1941/1942 ( don't have the exact date )

the overall shape and design off these crosses

can be found back on period photographs ,,,some off these are even dated .

also advertisement off the medal makers

have being found that show in some cases the particular crosses and dated in many cases as well

and the period books that have being written about these crosses do show some leads to dating these crosses ..

as fore the tools

these could not be used endlessly.

as far as my own research reveals until today

the pressing form fore the frame wood last around 30/40 years before they had to be renewed

the mother model fore the sanded caste core

they could be used almost endlessly

got some presented about that on my site Holland verzamelt.nl - 1870/1813 OBSERVATIONS

but that is fore the 1840/1880 period .

as fore the WW1 and WW2 tools it may be the same .

but could be different as the industrial material choice wood be better and off better quality

and it is quit possible that the so called maybauer schinkel (and others) crosses with swastika

made with the same frame tools as the crosses produced at 1914/1924 .

until LDO came

(as the general believes go's ,, and the Moore straiter look and design was generalized )

hope this helps

be aware there are many opinions about this to ...

regards kay

there you are,,,,,,,even a juncker frame .

mistake from my side ,,(about the frame .) sorry fore that .

kay

I know this wasn't you, Kai. But this was, and I might have misunderstood it, but it sounds strange in regards to the fact knowledge we do have on awarded vs. private purchase crosses.

"1 category is = the ORIGINAL DECORATION ONLY IF OBTAINED DIRECTLY FROM THE RECIPIENT OR HIS FAMILY WITH ALL SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION WITH A VERY STRONg PROVENANCE> in short the 100% original rewarded worn soldiers property

well 99.9999 % off the collectors wil not have such a cross"

Stopping here might be a really good idea.

I agree Sascha ,,,,

with respect ,,

kay

Holland verzamelt.nl - about the makers off the stie

Thanks for the nice words, Graf. You're welcome! I thought I was pretty clear in answering your question on the cross, and others were, too. As clear as one can get without picking a quarrel.

Kai, you have probably read of "probemäßig" and "Probemäßigkeit" on the German forums you're visiting, or you've read it in the magazines or books. You know and we know which types were definitely awarded. And that we don't need a 100% wearer proof to know it's original. These are facts you are aware of. I wonder. I really do, honestly.

theres nothing to wonder about

it was not me who doubted the ek 1914/39 marked L12 not to be original .

hagahr,

are you able to to give factual comments?

What is your problem with me?

Uwe

no problem at all

.

• I am so amaised about you speedytop ..
  
• 
  
• do you have originals ?
  
• take a peak in your collection and ,,,,,,,,
  
• schow us ,,,what you wood see as original ,,
  
• and tell us wy the shown cross is a original ,,,
  
• 
  

that is the best way ,,,

but wait until you buy youre first 1870 ek ,,,, because looking was so borring

your hooked ... like all hooked ek junkies here

see you then ,,,,regards kay

your welcome ........

regards kay

I agree with you Marrauder

But if there really is time to change the world, I would start with emedals. Not a long time ago they started to sell fakes as "Theatrical copies".

wel,,,can not help feeling guilty a bit ,,

i presented a theatre products catalogue with some military medals in it , some time back

dealers like to pick up trends from the internet

beware off the future

kay

to make it moore easy fore myself and solve the contrdiction we see in the collection off original Iron Crosses .

I figured there two category's who are mixed up in original and fake ( replacement) discussions

1 category is = the ORIGINAL DECORATION ONLY IF OBTAINED DIRECTLY FROM THE RECIPIENT OR HIS FAMILY WITH ALL SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION WITH A VERY STRONg PROVENANCE> in short the 100% original rewarded worn soldiers property

well 99.9999 % off the collectors wil not have such a cross

2 category is = the diferent Iron cross maker production examples linked to a certain time frame

those examples can be, legal, war time ,peace time , patriotic ,ilegal,rewarded ,worn ,experimantal ,privat, theatre props ,replacent and so on ,and so on .

but all can be placed in to a certain time frame and can be legal or not the certain time frame by the standart off the officials off that time

maybe this helpes all party's here to understand eachothers point

I work with category 2

GRAF also

speedytop ,,youre ideal would be category 1

can these two category's be accepted ?

regards kay

Who say, that the Kleiderkasse sold not authorized pieces, as "Nachbildung" > copy?

Where is written, that this is also meant for a 1914 EK? Do you really think and believe, that a 1914 EK need a "Mustergenehmigung", more than seventeen years after the award period?

§18 is for the licensing (Zulassung), the Kleiderkasse had the licensing.

The remark "Gesetz ... vom 19. Mai 1933" is against the sense of the dignity of the symbols. That is not a problem for the Kleiderkasse.

No Gestape for (against) copies.

"and Maybauer was selling Juncker crosses in 1941 privately?"

Excuse me, what is meant here? Where is here a connection to a 1914 EK?

Uwe

Who say, that the Kleiderkasse sold not authorized pieces, as "Nachbildung" > copy?

authorized pieces as "Nachbildung" > copy with the mark L12 do not exist fore me .

they are the real thing as the L12 is the autorisation .

as nachbildungen or copy's wood never get a LDO number

(speaking fore the cross this all started with )

but we can get on and on with this and never get to the bottom off this ..

I stop here ,,,as I know this has been a point off discussions on many forums already

and always ended undecided .

I respect your opinion ,,,leave me to mine please

regards kay

LDO text you cuote speaks off the peaces fore the private marked wood be optained at junckers

the add off maybauer I show is in a pivate organisation book .

so meant fore the private marked

so those must be junckers then ?

and Maybauer was selling Juncker crosses in 1941 privately ?

a mixture ?

how long until the gestapo wood make an end to that you wood think ?

1941 by the way

pricelist

off the,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Nachbildung: imitation, replica, duplicate, copy, reproduction, replication

next

so these are all fake ? imitation, replica, duplicate, copy, reproduction, replication

yes there are official rules and documents and laws ,,regulating the copys off original medals in the time 1933/ 1936 /1940

to bad you dont kno about them

but I pass here emediatly

as I do not experiance the tone off this conversation as a tone off gentlemans .

and I fear the conflict is just waiting around the corner ...programed already .

so its best to pass here

and declare youre right in all you say and taking my words back

regards kay

hagahr,

yes !

"what ever is comming out off theyre production in those years is original maker produced medals"

No problem, the crosses produced after 1924 are original AWS or Juncker, but not original 1914 EK's.

sure,,,,, not originaly produced in war time

"what you talking about is the first awarded medal"

Is there a second award of a 1914 EK after 1924? There is only one award, from 1914 to 1924.

the first medal a man gets is what i mean ,the one handed out at rewarding him

that is the pure original maker produced ,original war time ,originaly rewarded medal .

theres no comparing,,,,,throe

the cross you see here is defenately no copy or fake or not original

as this ( production type ) cross had to be presented aproval by the officials before the L12 mark wood be put on it .

making it a approved state medal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, officially .....

but sure not produced in the 1914/18 war ,but in WW2