Jamie770

Hi, I'm not sure if you have perhaps seen this, but I believe the RIC records are held by the National Archive office. Hopefully this link will work: http://www.nationala...afletID=244&j=1 There should be an alphabetical index to the records which will aid your search. These should hopefully tell you the native county of the other three Patrick Lawlers. Another possible source might be the book by J Herlihy. Best of luck with your search

Absolutely outstanding helmets of a type I've always wanted to have an example off! Many thanks to all for posting, these have been great to see.

"It's That Man Again" - the name of the show. Very famous in its day

Hi Mervyn, That's a glorious headress! I've always admired the Tschapka helmets - it looks to be all complete and in very good condition for its age.

Hi Mervyn, The club I was refering to are internet based - it is the 'Police Memorabilia Collectors Club' at http://www.pmcc-club.co.uk/ They have a substantial list of benefits which are noted on the web-site along with a growing on-line museum and photographic reference of current and historic head-dress. I don't want to sound like a salesman, but I've certainly found them to be good value for my £10 per year.

Birmingham City white helmet worn for traffic control, covered with a white painted canvas type material and having the same helmet furniture as the normal helmet. This one is stencilled inside 'BP B153 29'

Birmingham City helmet dating from before 1936. Six panel design with cloth centre band, fluted white metal spike and cross base with ear rosettes and helmet plate. Most Birmingham City helmets I have handled are stencilled in white paint inside - this one has 'BP C295 34' presumably 'BP' for Birmingham Police, 'C295' being the officers number and '34' being the date 1934

Hi Mervyn, Very nice helmets there - the Hampshire is one of my favourite current issue helmets. This one with the enamelled badge is for a Sergeant, the Constables having the slightly larger purely chromed plates. The Devon helmet is also quite rare, dating from the 1960's, but pretty much exactly the same style as the current Devon and Cornwall type. The Police Memorabilia Collectors Club website has a list of the current forces along with a picture of their current helmets - a well researched webpage which would be of great interest to collectors who are starting a collection of current helmets.

The helmet plate of the 5th Volunteer Battalion

A close up of the regular helmet plate

The Royal Scots (The Royal Regiment) was the oldest Regiment in the British Army and, as such, was the senior Infantry Regiment of the Line. It was raised in 1633 when Sir John Hepburn, under a Royal Warrant from King Charles I, recruited 1200 men in Scotland. The first Battle Honour awarded to the Regiment was Tangier 1680, since when a further 148 were gained in a history which involved them in almost every campaign the British Army has fought; the last awarded being 'Gulf 1991'. On 28 March 2006, 373 years to the day since its formation, The Royal Scots merged with the other surviving Scottish Infantry Regiments to form The Royal Regiment of Scotland. Pictured below are a pair of Victorian Officers helmets, the first with gilt fittings being to a regular officer and the second with silver fittings being to an officer of the 5th Volunteer Battalion.

Hi Mervyn, I have once seen a picture of another example of this type of helmet. It was for sale in America and was quite a bit more worn. It had a blackened badge unlike this one but it also had no top rose nor any other cover to the ventilator. Beyond this I've never seen another - as you say it is such an odd shape. Hopefully someone else may know a bit about the history behind it. The Garda did wear helmets in (I think) Dublin but the ones I've seen were the more standard pattern. Jack Leddy has a very good website with a few Garda helmets - my computer skills aren't good enough for me to post a direct link; but if you put "Jack Leddy" into Google it will take you straight there - well worth a look.

Thanks Mervyn, Yes, it does look original and 'all-belonging' with a key feature being the clear imprint and fading around the helmet plate. Internally it has no makers markings but it is very similar to other Victorian / Edwardian helmets I have seen in that it has a dark cloth lining to the helmet (of the same texture of cloth as shown in yours) but a different, waterproof looking lining to the front, side and rear peaks. It retains the remnants of where a paper label had once been stuck to the inside of the helmet. I'd love to come across a photograph of this style of helmet in use - perhaps one day!

Side view

A Shropshire Constabulary helmet with blackened white metal plate. The helmet has never had a different plate fitted and when the plate is (carefully!) removed the exact faded outline of the plate can clearly be seen on the cloth covering. The only thing that concerns me is that it is a two panel - all the victorian helmets I can recall handling were six panel. Does anyone know of two panel helmets used during the Victorian period?

The top mount - there was never a rose or any other cover fitted

Herewith a more side view

I attach a few pictures of an interesting Garda helmet I've come across - it is a very unusual style with a pronounced front brim. It is made of cork, leather edged and appears to date from 1950's (?) or so. It is covered with quite a course dark blue cloth and it has never had a rose or any other top mount fitted - nor has it any other holes or signs that it has ever had a different helmet plate. I once saw a picture of a tatty helmet of this style but fitted with a blackened plate which was for sale in America but otherwise I have never seen another. Does anybody recognise this style of helmet or know when it was in use?

From what I can tell it is original, there is certainly no sign it has ever been replaced and the wear to it matches exactly with the overall wear and ageing to the shako

Following on from Mervyn's post, I attach a picture of a Cheshire shako worn during the 1930's This one is stencilled inside '206 34'

Thanks for posting these Mervyn, Another fascinating group and information!

Finally, to finish, here are a couple of who I am pretty sure are Midlothian Constabulary officers wearing this pattern of helmet (Albeit that East Lothian wore a very similar helmet and plate) When viewed closely it looks like they are wearing mourning armbands. Accordingly they could have been part of the force detail who attended the funeral of Queen Victoria on the 2nd February 1901.

Here's the Thistle pattern top along with the seperate chin chain hook.

Here is a view showing the thistle pattern ear bosses

I thought members might be quite interested to see this helmet - it is very rare and has a number of unusual features. It is a blue cloth covered cork helmet in four panels (no front or rear seams) and it has a blackened 'thistle' pattern top, helmet plate, thistle pattern ear rosettes and a chin chain with a seperate hook at rear to allow the chain to be worn across the helmet body. It also has a leather chin strap for normal use - the chin chain appears to have never been worn in the 'down' position as it is slightly twisted where it is restrained by the hook of the right hand ear rosette to ensure it fits tightly across the helmet. I will upload some other views to try and show the more unusual features.