peter monahan

Your account of Pte. Tulip is exactly the sort of thing I tried to teach to the young men and women in my classes. "300,000" is just a number to most of us. Putting the results of one shell burst together with the life of one man is a far more effective description of the cost of war than any table of killed/wounded/missing can ever be!

Benny

I'm sure there are shots out there if you persevere. In '14 the UK was slinging everything but the kitchen sink off their troops as the demand for equipment was so high and only as the war progressed were they able to issue uniform kit to everyone. Canada had the same issue and some of the re-cycled militia gear in early photos has to be seen to be believed!

I think I must have been a cavalry trooper - or maybe his horse - in an earlier life, as I'm always fascinated by military horses and their kit. Thanks for sharing the bandolier with us!

Peter

All wonderfully evocative of the realities of war. Have never understood how non-military historians & collectors can think we collectors are 'glamourizing war' when we have access to such material. I suppose a few do, especially the 'sexy elite unit' brigade, but anyone who's read these poems with an ounce of comprehension would have to be a total burk not to get the point: "War is hell."

Hugh - my wife won't let me play 'The Band Played..." around the house. It makes her cry. I've felt that way myself a few time too.

Thanks for sharing, all!

Peter

Brian

Lucky guess! Yes, it's a repro. scabbard for my Brown Bess, used on the now rare occasion when I portray an enlisted swine at an 1812 re-enactment, rather than one of the gilded lily officers. And I suppose I'll now actually have to go ahead and do the repair, since you've called me on it.

It won't happen much before winter but when it does I'll try to remember to take photos. Thanks for the offer of the plastic too. I'll keep it in mind.

Sincerely,

Peter

Brian

Yes, the scabbard in question is for a triangle bayonet to go on my Brown Bess on the rare occasions when I still portray an enlisted swine in our War of 1812 re-enactments. And now that you've offered, I will actually have to do the repairs mentioned! The leather is too rotted at the edge to re-stitch, so your method is the way to go, as pride forbids I should buy a new scabbard, even for a repro. bayonet - I am, after all, an occasional leathersmith.

I'll attempt the repair but probably not before winter. When I do, I'll try to remember to post photos and, if I can't find the plastic at Micheal's [craft store] I'll scream for help. Thanks for the offer!

Peter

It appears that the 90 round bandolier was intended to go round the horse's neck, so presumably worn in addition to the 50 rounds the trooper wore on his body.

Seems to have been issued first for the Boer War - a campaign wherin many units were out of touch with the QM for extended period. Not sure whether it was still in use in WWI but here's the spot to get more info. on this topic and horse furniture in general: http://www.militaryh...hp?f=17&t=11273

Peter

I was going togo with Hugh's choice - "Dulce et decorum Est" - and its lovely savage cynicism, so appropriate for WWI, but then I remembered the one below. Like Noor's, a song, and one which speaks particularly to a Canadian. The YouTube site is given at the bottom. Quite by coincidence - 'Jimmy Whitefish from Kenora' - I was in Kenora for 3 days ending yesterday and saw the sad state of many of our First Nations people in the economically depressed heart of their old hunting lands.

Vimy

Lyrics and Music: Steve and Rob Ritchie

Chorus

Raise your flask, aim your rifles high

I've had a dream, I've seen we three should have no fear at all

You'll die in Kenora, Billy; you, Jim, in Winnipeg

And I will end my days in Montreal

These people come to see me in my bedroom

With faces dim and names I can't recall

Some woman with a golden ring she comes to comb my hair

Then she dresses me and walks me down the hall

Well I can still put one foot before the other,

If someone points the way for me to go

Today the sun is shining and a crowd has gathered 'round

They put circles of red flowers on the stone

Chorus

Old Jim Rankin stood behind me in the tunnel

Spat on his bayonet and he wiped it with his hand

And he rocked from heel to heel, blew out his cheeks and whistled

While we waited for the signal to advance

Jimmy Rankin he was twenty and we thought him an old man

He said he'd fathered children by the score

By girls back in Winnipeg and girls in Calais

And he bragged, by God, there'd be a hundred more

Chorus

And Billy Whitefish from Kenora: jet black hair and eyes like coal

We all called him 'Chief' behind his back

He never smiled or laughed or joked or spoke that much at all

Just sat and smoked while we waited to attack

Well they poured shells over our heads into the hillside

In thirty yards our kit and boots were full of mud

But as we made the ridge, Jimmy went down on both knees

And he coughed into his sleeve and there was blood

Chorus

The last sound I ever heard was an explosion

And bodies flew like apples thrown by boys play

When I could see again, I was alone Jimmy wasn't there

And a crater marked the hillside where he'd lain

And Billy Whitefish from Kenora wound up in a German trench

Where he captured their machine gun all alone

And held them off until his ammunition was all spent

And they swarmed around and they hacked him to the bone

Chorus

Now every day I still remember what I told them

My two friends who that day from this earth were torn

And the craters and the trenches where they died now bear the names

Of the cities and the towns where they were born

Chorus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7J3-qgLEZM

I second Ian's comments, Brian! Excellent work. An inspirattion to me - I have a broken bayonet scabbard to mend.

Very interesting development! Can't wait to see how they handle awarding it.

I must say, alluding to the original topic, if I had the 300GBP for a Hancock copy I'd probably buy one!

Not sure about the Victorians but certainly in the Georgian period it was common to give 'presentation swords' to deserving officers, either by public subscription after somebody's name made the London Gazette or by smaller private groups. Nelson must have had dozens of them! So it's quite possible, IMHO, that even these lovely pieces of ironware were the 'second best' swords to their owners and not worth the bother of having engraved, unlike perhaps the ones they ordered themselves. Also, were I the lucky owner of great granddad's multiple uniforms, accessories and swords, I'd be flogging off the unnamed ones when temporarily financially embarrassed!

I have always loved the look of these swords! I still vividlyrecall, 30 years later, my first visit to an upscale militaria shop in Piccadilly Arcade, London. Green as grass, a colonial tourist and probably obviously so, I was treated with perfect courtesy by the clerk, who obligingly trotted vast trays of India general Service Medals medals which he must have known I had no hope of purchasing! But what got me into the store was a 'Mameluke hilted General officer's Sword' in the window which he told me nonchalantly had belonged to General Sir Sam Browne VC GCB LCSI of the 2nd Punjab Irregular Cavalry [sam Browne's Cavalry]. Him of the amputated left arm and the 'Sam Browne belt' and the only item of militaria I would still unhesitatingly grab up with my hypothetical lottery winnings were I ever in a position to do so!

Welcome back anyway! Always good to have another [somewhat aged?] 'voice of reason' to temper the wild enthusiasm of our younger members. :cheeky:

I agree, Mervyn. Fair price for a lovely item and almost certainly a good investment as well. Can't see the price dropping nor great numbers of fakes appearing - just too bl****y complex to remake. I'm envious, Kev!

What a shame! Hope you have good luck in recovering them.

Mike

Found this on Amazon:Accles Machine Gun, Carriages and Mounts (1892) [Paperback] J. Accles (Author)

Is that the same brochure you mention? 1 review listed on the Amazon site which says this: "Although the Accles was not issued officially, records show that it was used on some occasions by independent business companies against pirates in the Far East", for what its worth.

Also, http://acclesandshelvoke.co.uk/history.htm covers the history of Mr. Accles with the Colt company - built factories in China for wxample. Hope it helps a bit.

Peter

Monkey

Just read this thread - a day late and a shilling short, as usual - but I did get the joke! "EU" and "logic" in the same sentence. Same same like "military intelligence".

Over here in snowy Canada -temperature outside my window a frigid 32 degrees Celsius as I type this - we began issuing numbers, not even bars, for some of the UN missions our guys were on. Cyprus, for example, had Canadians doing signals/communications for many many years so if you served in our Signal Corps or had that speciality in another unit and were willing to go, you could go a whole bunch of times. The numerals '5', '6', '8' exist and have been issued and one hears rumours of '10' and even '15'! Nice cheap way to reward our boys for sticking their necks out!

Peter

Mervyn

They are still not hard to find over here but, like most of this sort of thing, the lists one assumes were kept, linkung serial numbers and names, don't seem to be available, so most of them show up as 'orphans' though in their time they would have been treasured by the wearers and honoured by others, who knew their significance.

Vernon

Your friend, if interested in selling, would be well adviced to get expert advice. Some of the more reputable auction houses might venture an appraisal and, if the thing is authentic, would very likely be interested in selling it for him, for the reason Paul mentioned. Sadly, he was equally right in his comments on fraud. Good luck to him and you!

Peter

I well remember when I got rid of my rifles - many many years ago now - I was young, the gun laws in Canada had changed and I thought I needed a bit of cash more than a collection of ex-Enfield long arms. A Mk. 4 Martini-Henry and an SMLE were my favourites, both evocative of vast areas of British/Commonwealth/Imperial history.

I also recall what George Macdonald Fraser asked rhetorically in one of the McAuslan stories, something to the effect of "What will the wild men of the world do when the last Lee Enfield is gone?" Such a shame that so many were butchered over here in North America; stocks cut down and sold as hunting rifles. Such a shameful way to treat a noble tool! One of the iconic weapons of this century, AK 47s be d***ed!

Peter

Interesting that the tip is so blunt. I wouldn't assume wear but rather that someone has deliberately blunted it for safety reasons. Can't see a manufacturer hoping to sell such a piece doing it, but maybe one of its owners?

Also, you may notice that the catalogue page refers to a 'swollen tip' on the dagger. Sounds like something one might contract in the wrong sort of sporting house, but in fact it makes the tip resemble a diamond shape in cross section and is meant to burst the rings on chain mail when used in battle.

As Brian says, the fact that there are no bits missing make it a very nice piece! I'd hang onto it as 'probably real' if it were me.

Peter

The 73rd Battalion (Royal Highlanders of Canada), CEF, was authorized on 10 July 1915 and embarked for Great Britain on 31 March 1916, disembarking in France on 13 August 1916, where it fought as part of the 12th Infantry Brigade, 4th Canadian Division until 9 April 1917 when it was withdrawn from the line after Vimy and broken up to provide reinforcements. The battalion was subsequently disbanded on 19 April 1917.

It was perpetuated by The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada, a regiment of the Canadian Reserve Force, which is headquartered, odly enough, in Montreal. In fact, when I was there in April to retreive my youngest child, a student at McGill University, I had breakfast with a young militia man who was reproting in to the Black Watch. He had a French Canadian name but had done his service with an Ontario Highland unit and was unhappy to have to transfer to the Black Watch because he didn't like the tartan! Perhaps you know that the original 'Black Watch' were the British 42nd Reg't who were so nicknamed either because they wore a very dark tartan - green with a touch of red or because they were raised after the 1745 Rebellion, were the only men in Scotlnd allowed to wear kilts or tartan and were seen by some as collaborating with the English by serving as peacekeepers in the Highlands!

Interestingly enough, the badge you have is the commoner of the two worn by the unit it seems, as a maple leaf badge with the center numerals '73' is retailing for $1000.00 at Arctic medals in Winnipeg.

You might want to check this site out - very interesting: http://blackwatchcanada.com/

Peter

Chris

You must have been pretty bored this morning to be digging up these old posts! I must admit to a faint unease in citing Wren's serevice in La Legion, as I don't recall ever reading a detailed biography of the man but based my statement on 'received wisdom' and the notion which you mention, that he must have been there to get all the details so right.

So, I did some poking about and have come to the conclusion that, as a Scottish jury would have it, the case is not proven. Wren had an adopted son who always maintained very strongly that he had served, probably during a 3 year [or 5 year] period when he travelled the world and worked, among other things, as a dock labourer, circus roustabout and so on. I couldn't get more authoritative info. because the good on-line bigraphical dictionaries are all subscription only but here's Wikipedia's take on it:

Wren as legionnaire

Wren was a highly secretive man, and his membership of the Legion has never been confirmed. When his novels became famous, there was a mysterious absence of authenticating photographs of him as a legionnaire or of the usual press-articles by old comrades wanting to cash in on their memories of a celebrated figure. It is now thought more likely that he encountered legionnaires during his extensive travels in Algeria and Morocco, and skillfully blended their stories with his own memories of a short spell as a cavalry trooper in England.

While his fictional accounts of life in the pre-1914 Foreign Legion are highly romanticised, his details of Legion uniforms, training, equipment and barrack room layout are generally accurate. This may however simply reflect careful research on his part—the descriptions of Legion garrison life given in his work The Wages of Virtue written in 1914 closely match those contained in the autobiographical In the Foreign Legion by ex-legionnaire Edwin Rosen, published Duckworth London 1910.

The Historical and Information Service of the Foreign Legion hold no record of service by anyone of Wren's name and have stated their belief that he obtained his information from a legionnaire discharged in 1922. In a recently published history (2010) the military writer Martin Windrow examines in detail the evidence for and against Wren's service with the Foreign Legion before concluding that in the absence of some further documentary discovery the question is an insoluble one.

So there you have it!

Peter

Some of the lads at the 'Grand Tactical' - our biggest event each year - in Maryland in 2009

Yes, Please! What Mervyn said: more photos please. I'll share some of mine too, from this side of the pond, if you like! :love:

Lew, thank you for sharing your wonderful collection with us! Mevyn, as usual, I walk away from my computer with both more fascinating information on another time and place and with my respect for your depth of knowledge - calling it scholarship would not be inaccurate - renewed. Thank you both!

I'm not British, so take this for what it's worth, but I'm with Sir John on this: campaign medals should reflect 'risk and rigour' and be given out sparingly rather than by the ladle full. We all know, or think we do, of armies which give out medals for 'Completing Basic Training', 'Getting an "A" in Military Typing School", "Guarding the Canteen"... You get the idea!

If there is be a campign medal, as opposed to a long service medal, for the 'Cold War', what would the qualification be? And, by the same logic, could any member of His Majesty's or Her Majesty's forces who served anywhere at all between the years 1700 and the end of the Iraq campaign argue he/she was eligible on the grounds that she/he was 'ready to fight' if sent anywhere nasty? The Brigade of Guards, for example, famously didn't leave England for decades at a time during the last two centuries. But could they, like the training cadre at Aldershot, who arguably helped hold off the godless Red hordes during the Cold war, ask for a gong for keeping the home fires burning while others went to India, Africa or wherever the red duster needed defending? HUGE can of worms looming here!

Peter