peter monahan

It also makes me wonder who these people are who are selling them, surely they must be reservists/TA or soldiers who left the army short after the campaign, given the fact that if your still serving then you`ll still need it? There was an article in Soldier Mag this month, commenting on this issue, I`d very much like to hear the views of soldiers/collectors on this subject!!!

BigJar

I remember (many many years ago) being in a store in Canada when a chap came in with two Falklands War medals. This was within 3-6 months of the end of the campaign, but each had a slip of paper stating that they'd been bought in Liverpool the week the Queen Mary docked there on her return from the South Atlantic. Both were named to Royal Marines.

I can't attest, obviously, to the truth of the stories but I do recall reading that within a very short time of the initial issue all replacements were being so marked before issue due to the distressingly high rate of "lost" medals among serving troops. I also recall that the prices were in the hundreds of dollars/pounds so even regulars may have succumbed to the temptation to earn some easy money!

Peter

well what can i say

Maybe he was recruiting barbers for the Greater Reich?

Peter

Temporary promotions happened in WW1 as well.

Captain in 1917, and by the end of the war a Colonel. In 1920 reverted back to Captain, a month later (or less) promotion to Major and promoted to Lieutenant Colonel 15 or so years later. Ii happened to Patton, Eisenhower, Bradley and others.

Knew a Marine Gunner once, a "mustang" promoted from the ranks who got "downsized" right out of his commission and served another ten years as a senior NCO. He says he used to regularly get saluted first by Lts and Captains who'd been commissioned and served with/under him when he was a Major. Go figure!

Peter

Mind you, it's a lovely tin though Ralph.

Tony

Ralph, it is a beautiful example of the type too. Lovely condition! Our Canadian War Museum has one with chocalate and cigarettes inside but I don't think it's quite so shiny as yours. They also have a scarf (or "muffler" if you prefer) allegedle knitted by Her Majesty with her own little knitting sticks and sent out to some poor trooper stuck on the veldt for Christmas. I believe there were said to be 50 such, so she must have been very busy. Or at least her ladis in waiting must.

Peter

Looks fine to me. Could have easily been awarded an ISM early in ERII reign. I am suprised there is no further Home service in WW2 (Defence Medal) , but he may have been unfit for service through his previous War service (or too old) and been a postman etc which accounts for the ISM.

Scott

I'd agree: loks ok, though the mounting bar is maybe a late addition. It would be an odd one to fake anyway - nice, unusual but not a real "gotta have it grabber" and the three forenames would be a lot of work to match/fake.

My tuppence worth.

peter

[

If you can substatiate that the 95th were not there I would appreciate it. I am under the impression that, thats the way the story line went in the series, but that in real life they were not at the seige? Is this correct?

]

Chris

try Googling "Younghusband" - they were an Anglo-Indian family who served with the Guides for generations. (The founder of the unit was a Younghusband). MM Kaye, the English romance novelist was married to the last Younghusband to serve with the unit I believe. Anyway, that might get you some photos.

I have a privately published hisotry to the Corps, printed in India in 1885 and covering the period from their raising to 1880. Quite interesting, as much of it is a transcription of the Adjutants' records, full of the "small change of soldiering" as someone put it: patrol here, column there, promotions and leaves, etc.

Peter

Grant,

Thanks for adding to this post and clearing up as to why QLR wear the capbadge backing. The only bit you got wrong was the hackle of the Lancashire Fusiliers which was infact "primrose yellow", which they wore until amalgamated with the other English Fusilier Regiments in 1968 and then the old Royal Northumberland Fusiliers hackle of red & white was adopted by all battalions

And presumably the Lancs had primrose regimental colours as well as facings, so adopting the "yellow" backing would commemorate the colours upon which some of that incredible number of battle honours would be embroidered. Very clever of the colonel in question!

A couple of points to agree with Grant on the "cowardice" issue. Lets' think this through:

Forcing a unit to wear a cowardice badge would do what for their recruiting prospects?

How long would it be before the unit did something (suicidally) brave enough to rehain their unit honour and have the sign removed?

If such a thing were prescribed, especially in a removable form like a lanyard, how often would it be lost or forgotten, with the active connivance or the NCOs and officers, as opposed to worn to proclaim their shame? "Oh, the lanyard? We wear that in No. 77 Dress, our second Sunday of every leap year uniform."

To quote Freud, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" and sometimes white and yellow are just colours. And lanyards do have a use - use one on my own jackknife when I'm camping 100 miles from the cutlery store.

My tuppence worth!

peter

[

quote name='Tony' date='Nov 1 2005, 13:55 ' post='28508']

When going through one of my books a while back I realised some of the words/expressions still used in the British army stem from the pre 1914 and 14-18 soldier?s corruption of Hindustani, Arabic etc. words.

Is anyone here a member of the Aussie or Kiwi forces, or Canadian even? If so, are these words in use with your armed forces? I don?t doubt the Anzacs and Canadians used them during WWI.

Add these;

"Blighty" for England (from "Belait" in Hindi) In WWI a "blighty one" was a wound that sent you home for good, ideally a tow gone or something similarly slight but incapacitating

"Have a decco" (look round) from the Hindi for "Look / watch for

"Khaki" of course is from the Persian word for "dust" - colour first used during the Indian Mutiny by the Indian Armies Corps of Guides

I think of some more anon.

Peter

And last ...

I like this one! Who is it attributed too?

Peter (in Canada)

Who and when first introduced the idea of Army police/Provost ?

If you want to get really historical, you can go back to the medieval English campaigns in France. I'm working from an increasingly shaky memory here, no notes, so bear with me.

Anyway, as early as Agincourt there were "squires" whose duty it was to prevent quarrels - "affrays" in camp and punish people who "cried havoc" without just cause (ie: raised a false alarm). There are copies of the orders for the armies, which cover looting, making affray and other offences against the king's peace.

The squires had real power and could execute offenders on the king's say so without any particular form of trial. They were the ones who executed/murdered the French prisoners at Agincourt when it looked as if the French might get into the english camp and free them.

Some deep background. For what it's worth!

Hi,

nice, that must a a collecting theme in itself, mason badges with a military theme...

I'm involve in reenacting the War of 1812 here in Canada (a small sideshow of the Napoleonic wars) and one of our regiments is the 8th (Kings) regiment. Most of the officers and some of the men wear Masonic badges with an "8" and a square. I've always assumed that the 8th had a travelling lodge over here, but will ask next time I see one of them.

Rudyard Kipling has at least three short stories on this theme too - military lodges - as well as the famous "The man Who Would Be King", in which two british soldiers of fortune become "Kings of Kaffiristan" because they wear Masonic badges which match the symbols left behind in deepest darkest Afghanistan by Alexander the Great! great story and not a bad movie either.

Peter

Now that I know that's him, I wonder where his stuff went....

Dave

Dave

Beaverbrook die in England but his ashes are in Fredrickton, New Brunswick, Canada, in the base of a statue to him. (He was a local paperboy made good!) There is also a Beaverbrook Gallery there with a very good collection of art he acquired and later donated but also, apparently some stuff in England, where his (bankrupt) grandson is trying to re-coup the family fortunes. Try looking for "The Beaverbrook Foundation", which administers his estate and many charities, and see what info they have.

Peter

1257 Farrier-Major William Vaz, 31st Lancers

An interesting partial group that raises many questions.

1- British War Medal - named "1257 FAR-MAJ. W. VAZ, 31 LRS.""

2- Indian Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal, Edward VII - named "1257 Sowar William Vaz, 31st D. of C.O. Lcrs"

Interesting is right! The disparity in ranks, for one, and the name for another. "wiliam vaz" in a Bombay Cavalry regiment? Anglo-Indian? Indian Christian? Rather odd any way one slices it! It would be fascinating to know what his other medals were too. Is it possible to research Other ranks yet for Indian stuff? It wasn't when I collected them, which of course is why I could afford Indian groups.

Keep the lovely stuff coming!

Peter

To add mine, incredibly rare to the Indian Army. This is the only one I've seen in 30+ years. Few Indians served in West Africa, thougfh many in East and Central Africa. Named "3297 SEPOY HAZARA SINGH. 15TH SIKHS".

Ed

Were the 15th Sikhs there, or was your man attached to another unit or to a British officer ? One hads heard, for example, of two 5 or 6 bar QSA's to Indians: both were orderlies for "Bobs Bahadur" (General Roberts).

My coworkers wife runs an estate sales company and everything I have seen come thru her doors has been original. I will know more later.

Gary

Sounds legit., then. Maybe the Cdns did issue such to American vols after the USA entered the war. Love to know what you eventually find out.

Peter

As for the tattoos, I believe many SS men had their blood type tattooed on the inside of their arm, in addition to those men with SS affiliation tattoos.

Fewer than 100 silver medals were issued and they are exceptionally rare and command a very high price.

]

Probably a book in this for someone! The various expeditions were right out of P.C. Wren and Hollywood. The early ones involved boat trips up the Niger and Benue to suppress various slavers and "juju cults" (read human sacrifice still, unfortunately, practiced occasionally there). Launches full of Hausa levies, manned by sturdy Jack Tars, navigating narrow waterways through dense jungle under threat of poisoned arrow attack. Destination: really horrible "temple" sites.

Later, in the north, attacks on mud-walled forts and swarms of sword weilding native cavalry facing British squares and Gatling guns. British always outnumbered 10-20 to 1 and surviving by dint of superior firepower and discipline. A microcosm of the imperial story. And BTW, mud walls are not to be sneezed at. In 1980 the Kano Jail had mud walls: 30 feet high, eight feet thick and as hard as concrete. Not something I'd want to take under fire!

The Lagos Hausa Force were northerners recruited on the coast, so effectively mercenaries, like the Trans-Frontier Pathans in the Frontier Force regiments of the old Indian Army. And good fighters! The Nigerians sent 2 divisions to Burma in WWII where they had a reputation for fierceness second to none.

My tuppence worth! (I'm rambling here because the medal brings backs memories of 2 years in northern Nigeria back when I was young and adventurous).

Peter

I recently have seen a patch in a grouping that has CANADA over a flying eagle which is over USA. Is this a rare patch similar to the Eagle Squadron patch?? I dont have pictures.

Gary

The only help I can give is to tell you that there were, pre-Pearl Harbour, a lot of Yanks in the RCAF. In fact, one base had it's sugn changed toe read "Royal California Air Force. But I've never heard that they wore anything but standard RCAF patches. Sounds very very strange. A fantasy piece, maybe?

Peter

General H.D.G. Crerar

College No. 749

PC, CH, CB, DSO, CD, ADC

Crerar graduated from RMC in 1909. He served as a artillery officer in the First World War and held various appointments in the years between the wars. He was Commandant of RMC when war broke out again in 1939. Crerar commanded the First Canadian Army from 1944 to 1945.

Best guess: Crerar's gongs are either at Royal Military College (RMC), Kingston, Ontario, Canada or in the Canadian War Museum. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Hope this is some small help

Subadar Mohd. Sher, IDSM, 3/1st Punjab Regiment

The CdG is shown in Qureshi's regimental history, most probably for actions at Kissoue, outside of Damascus, Syria, where he was wounded on 13 June 1941. Five CdGs were awarded to the regiment for this campaign, but only two to Indians.

The Regimental History records him as being wounded at Kissoue, outside Damascus on 13th June 1941. The History also records the Award of the Croix de Guerre (for Syria) and also confirms the M.I.D. (for the same action?).

Lovely group. Ed! Very nice with the Croix de Guerre especially with explanatory citations. I once owned a group to an officer of Indian Cavalry who had a lovely looking Rumanian Order of the Crown on the end but the only info. I had on that was third hand: a fellow collector knew one of the recipient's fellow officers and said that the fellow suggested (somewhat cattily) that it was "a consolation prize" for not getting an MC for some work in Palesyine/Syria in '17-'18.

I do so love the IOM! Simple but strong. Pity you got it forst as a personal logo. Michael Johnson and I adopted it for the Indian Military Collectors Society logo just for the look, many many years ago. BTW, my regards to Ashok Nath when next you write him. He may remember me from the old IMCS days.

these are made by Ishapore (India) and have manufacture dates in the 1980's! The latest so far being 1988!! This is a manufacture year, not a refurb year! Pretty amazing that this historic rifle was still being made (and for all we know still being made!) up to recent times.

CroppyBoy1798

Someone quoted George MacDonald Fraser on Lee Enfields. In one of his (humourous) short stories he describes being in an old fort in North Africa circa 1946 and having Bedouin nomads come in to "check out' he and his troops. Carrying SMLEs. And his response "I don't know what the wild men of the world will do when the last Lee enfields wear out."

Before the ubiquitous AK47, SMLEs were what you got it you were a poor guerilla group, local levies or just a guy who needed a rifle in many many parts of the world. Wrote a letter a couple years ago to our local paper when they carried a photo of one, misidentified as "Saddam Hussein's favourite gun". It was a No.1, mag in and COCKED, being carried by a little old lady in Baghdad who was turning it in under a "guns for food" program.

I used to own a No. 4 and cried when I gave it up. It had a real kick when fired - not as bad as a Martini Henry, which actually left bruises after repeated firing,apparently, but enough that one didn't enjoy it after a few rounds. Also learned to shot on a what we called a "No. 7" (I think): the .22 cal. re-barrel version as used by Canadian cadet corps.

BTW, the Longbranch version, with the standard "broad arrow" mark inside a large "C" are quite collectible her in the Dominion, though i haven't checked prices in many years.

The Aussies also produced a "jungle carbine" version, which is quite popular with the collectors - looks very cool but I don't know how it shoots.

Peter

That would be the horse!

Bob

Embarassing enough, as a cavalry mount, to tell yer stable mates that your rifer cut off your ear with his saber (apparently a common occurrence) but "caught it in a trombone slide" ?? Ouch!

We have had chevrons forever (OPP).

Ray

Sounds as if danny's your man, but in the meantime I did a quick search for Cdn. dress regs. The Navy says rank badges (incl. chevrons) are worn "midway between the point of the elbow and the shoulder"; the Air Cadets measure it down from the shoulder seam: 14cm (5.5 inches), but they have a mapl elaf badge whose bottom edge is 12cm from the seam. I think that would look very cramped with large chevrons.

My tuppence's worth.

Peter