RobW

To one and all,

For those vic collectors that have yet to obtain a copy of the Laslo references there are two current ebay auctions open; one for each edition of the books.

Auction numbers are:

* 151056874567 - Numbered and signed 1986 first edition (752/765).

* 151056874741 - 1992 second edition.

While both have a modest starting price these volumes are not seen that often. Despite their age they are the only specific reference book available, at this time.

Regards,
Rob

Hi,

This group of three medals consists of US Victory (with an absurd combination of clasps, therefore without interest...) but with an interesting French WWI medal made in USA (you can go to my website for informations http://www.medailles1914-1918.fr/france-commemora.html) and a FIDAC medal (I think also of US manufacture).

Regards

Pierre-Yves

To all,

As Pierre-Yves has mentioned the interesting item in the group is the US produced French War Commemorative medal.

While slightly off-topic there are also US manufactured versions of the following French medals:

* St. Mihiel Medal

* Chateau-Thierry Medal

* Verdun Medal

These US manufactured versions are surprisingly more difficult to find than their French made counterparts.

The FIDAC medals is also a nice specimen. I have seen other French made examples that have a ball suspender and the dates 1918-19 inscribed on the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Bill,

It does seem odd that a person with but 1 piece of feedback has made so many bids; although they could just be starting out in the vic section.

Regards,
Rob

Here are the two Italian diplomas, Army and Navy.

As RobW wrote, the Navy one is quite scarcer than the Army model. However, the price is not so high.

Hello Claudio,

Thanks for posting these pics. These are a nice pair of Italian diploma's.

I introduce my French diploma also. Since I'm not an expert about it, I'm waiting for your comments about it.

While I am also not an expert on the myriad of French vic diplomas this is a nice example of that issued to a member of the 1st Aeronautic Group. Those certificates awarded to members of the French Air Force, or air groups in general are not often seen.

As Jean-Michel illustrated above there are quite a few different designs to the French vic diploma.

Regards,

Rob

Hello GM1,

Welcome to the forum and this particular area.

It is not unusual for the Alexander Leisek maker marks to be very faint.

Regards,
Rob

Hi Gents,

An interesting item on eBay - a Cambrai clasp with pin attachment - item # 160993973593

Said to be 'old stock' from a closed-down dealer in Paris.

Bill

Hello Bill,

This same vendor had a clasp that is quite shiny and appears to be of recent manufacture. The lettering appears to be much more squat and elongated compared to the official strikes.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

While my collection is in long-term storage, I would be interested to see what opinions there are on the scarcity of particular country award certificates/brevets/diplomas.

I think the scarcest diplomas are:

* Brazil, and

* Italian Navy

It would be good to hear other opinions.

Regards,
Rob

Oh no it isn't! After looking at the photos I posted and then examining the medal under a magnifying glass I now think it's an Unofficial Type 3 - just like the one I posted previously.

The photo from the seller looked very promising .... isn't that BELGIA???

... but I now think it was a trick of the lighting, plus some wishful thinking on my part. I had a discreet poke at the lettering in BELGIA with a wooden toothpick and now it looks just like BELCIA! And ANCLIA for the one to the left.

I've been over the seller's photos of the medal and compared every flaw and mark and I'm convinced that I have the medal that he photographed, so it's my mistake

Bill

Hello Bill,

It is a nice unofficial type 3 nonetheless. The unofficial type 3a are particularly scarce and hard to find.

Regards,

Rob

Rob,

Interesting. Are they similar type as this one (castings like this) ? What kind of associated background do those medals have ? (I mean we expect such stamps from other fakes, like the Mike Shank fakes, and well a lot of the stuff produced in Thailand in modern times.)

Perhaps someone from the French community would have more info on this aspect - French companies stamping as such ?

Rgds,

Dave

Hello Dave,

At the moment my collection is in long-term storage so it is not at hand. My collection records indicate some were cast and others die-struck.

It would be interesting to see what the French collectors think.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob,

In any case, I don't suppose there was ever a need to have this medal officially imported into the US, so what would be the reason to follow US regulations ?

Also, typically on other French medals which have been exported elsewhere where this has been required, including Thailand, I see the source marks in French not English. So it sort of seems that strikes are incorrect already ? Do we have other examples where this was done ?

Hello Dave,

The only reason I can think that they would be imported into the US was for the existing collectors market.

Yes; I have seen other victory medals with both the BRONZE marks as well as stamped MADE IN FRANCE. I have the following;

* Belgian vic with MADE IN FRANCE & BRONZE on the edge.

* Cuban vic with MADE IN FRANCE & BRONZE on the edge.

* 2 Japan vics with MADE IN FRANCE on the edge.

* 2 Portugal vics with MADE IN FRANCE on the edge.

* 2 US vics with MADE IN FRANCE on the edge.

* 2 US vics with MADE IN ITALY on the edge.

I also have pictures of the following;

* Czechoslovak vic with MADE IN FRANCE on edge.

* Czechoslovak vic with MADE IN FRANCE on the suspension ring.

In all these examples the style of stamp used is consistent with that seen on the Siam example.

While slightly off-topic I have also seen this MADE IN FRANCE and BRONZE markings on a French produced British 1914 Star as well. That example is in the hands of a US collector.

Regards,

Rob

A new type Thai fake here : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/49862-thaisiamese-victory-medals/page-2#entry537603

Hello Dave,

I would suggest this item is not a fake but moreso a contemporary to the 1930's French reproduction.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Dave,

I would agree that it is a copy and of contemporary to the 1930's period. The French manufacture accounts for the 'BRONZE' mark and the compliance with the US 1931 Tariff Law explains the country of origin 'MADE IN FRANCE' marking. Of course it will prove a bit harder to lock down the exact French manufacturer.

Regards,
Rob

Nice diplomes Jean-Michel.

There is a wide variety of designs and different award categories for the French vic, so there should be many examples to be posted.

There is also quite a few variations of the Italian award certificates.

It will be good to see the document collectors amongst the group.

Regards,
Rob

Similar to the separate general topic on Victory Medal ribbons, interest has been expressed in having a separate topic to discuss Victory Medal award documents. As documents are quite collectible - even without the medal - this topic will allow for a general discussion and comparison of award documents and diplomas for specific countries or even between the different countries.

Hello Rick,

If we are going for a separate topic I would suggest some spring cleaning to remove the existing document posts in the country specific threads. This would then keep all the documents in the one place. On initial glances there are not that many docs already posted so it shouldn't take too long to quickly gather the stragglers and place them in the document topic.

The forum is looking very organised and complete.

Regards,

Rob

To one and all,

For those that may not be aware a very active French militaria forum has recently closed due to a number of 'events'. Some members here may have known it as the FIM and, while it was only in the French language, it was a real trove of information on all French medals.

http://www.forum-insignes-medailles.net

It is a shame to see such a forum succumb to disruptive factors.

Regards,
Rob

Hi everyone!!!!!

Here's my recently aquisition to my VM colection...a VM belgian/Czech version

Hello Peron,

A very nice Alexander Leisek produced variety. The obverse/reverse strike is quite good and the makers marks are quite pronounced.

There should be the faint marking of 'Paul Dubois' on the obverse on the right of the feet of victory as viewed. It is a bit difficult to see in the pictures provided.

Regards,

Rob

Hi

Very nice set Rob...

One of the medals on your set, the Military Medal awarded in your set for good behaviour was created in 1863 by King Luiz I of Portugal...

Best regards

Peron

Hello Peron,

I would agree that it is a nice set. Much of the attention and interest in the Great War appears focuses on France and the combattants. It is these groups, that display both other theatres and 'unglamorous but essential' occupations, that are fascinating.

Regards,

Rob

For Paul,

Some plain paper packets that were used for the issuing of medals from the Calcutta Mint. While these examples are of later era medals it would be probable that such packets were also used for earlier era medals.

Regards,
Rob

Rick

One could say the collecting of Vics is a much more restricted field in comparrison.

Martin

Hello Martin,

While the collection of vics may be a restricted field it is the variety, created by all the different country models, that creates most of the challenge. If one were to just stick to a representative example from each country that would still be 14 medals. Having said that, trying to find some of the rarer models like the Brazil and Siam vics is problematic if you are on a budget.

In a ironic way it is the unofficial period era strikes, as well as the 1920's-1930's reproductions that are a bit more difficult to find than the actual 'official' examples.

Regards,

Rob

Hi,

It's not at all a Czech model but a belgian model made more recently (making less detailed and some of them have a varnish finish).

Here, three models of my collect:

Cheers

Pierre-Yves

Hello Pierre,

You mention the model on the left, of the three you posted, has the Chobillon hallmark and bronze on the edge. Could you post a picture of the rim for us to compare?

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob,

Mine seems to be somewhere in between - given that there will be differences in the lighting. It shares some features with #15 - the soldered cylinder suspension, and the flaws on the rim at the 3 and 9 o'clock areas - and it doesn't have the golden glow of #16, so I think I'll go for the former - brassy.

Bill

Hey Bill,

That is, I think, one of the real benefits of this forum. Having the ability to compare posted pics against our examples educates us all.

Regards,

Rob

Hi to all, especially Rob and Jean-Michel

I never posted on this section but some of you know my website http://www.medailles1914-1918.fr/

I collect all WWI medals for a long time ago and I stand in this topic because I'm astonished by this group:

Indeed, according to several authors, I though it was not possible to obtain 1914-1915 medal and 1914-1920 medal. If this veteran received these two medals, it's a "scoop". I hope to post more often...

Regards

Pierre-Yves

Hello Pierre,

Welcome aboard !

In regards the Japanese War Medal 1914-15 and 1914-20 there is a clarification. As Rich has pointed out on his web-site, you could be awarded both medals, you just could then only wear one of them. Bill posted a link to his web-site at post # 42 of this thread.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Bill,

If you grab a copy of pics of the two varieties:

* Post # 15 - Matte brass finish.

* Post # 16 - Gold-gilt finish.

and compare them side-by-side that should be a good guide in your continuing hunt.

Regards,

Rob

It certainly will make it easier when I finally get around to posting and identifying the types of my own Vics.

Rick,

Be careful because once you start identifying your varieties it is a slippery slope. One variety leads to the next and so on and before you know it....

Rob

Rob, lovely trio and nice rank.

As to the Calcutta mint question. I feel sure that they would have produced and named them. I suspect the dies for the medals were sent from London and then produced and named in Calcutta, certainly I feel this would have been the case for Indian Army, I assume that British troops in India would have received London produced.

Paul

Hello Paul,

Thanks for the comment on the group. When I obtained it I had to do some research into what the Supply and Transport Corps was and certainly into what rank a 'Headman' was. So much variety with Indian medals.

I have a couple of Indian groups and they all have the BWM with the characteristic larger suspender claw on the BWM indicating a Calcutta Mint production. I also have a group to an English LT who was commissioned into an Indian Regiment and received his medals while in India. Again the BWM is of Calcutta Mint production. I have seen other British groups where they received their medals when the arrived back in the UK and not while in India.

We also know that the 1914-15 Star was produced by the Calcutta Mint due to the minor reverse die differences. The vic is the anomaly. As you have indicated people are sure it was produced by the Calcutta Mint but no records have survived to confirm this.

This makes the search for definitive proof all the more interesting.

Regards,

Rob