RobW

Finally I got the time to look for the pictures and to prepare them for upload.

Here is another variant !

Regards

Milan

To one and all,

Has anyone else seen this variety since Milan posted this variety with the very small sword hilts and wider dates?

Regards,

Rob

To all,

These particular bars to the US vic have started to appear on the online auction sites.

Any thoughts from our US readership as to the origin of this latest addition to the never-ending number of varieties to the US vic.

Regards,

Rob

Hello,

I present to you my various Belgian medals, none is identical and I miss a model uniface silver with marking "boar".

Regards

Jean-Michel

Hello Jean-Michel,

While I have seen the uniface model in darker bronze, are you saying that there is a uniface model made in silver??

That would be interesting.

Regards,

Rob

To one and all,

There is still much speculation as to whether or not the vic was also produced by the Calcutta Mint. Some believe it was and others insist it was produced in London.

With little to no records from the Calcutta Mint surviving it will interesting if any of our Indian collectors could offer some insights.

Regards,
Rob

Gentlemen, the moving of specific posts to their respective country threads from the locked General Discussion thread is now complete. If you do the math, I've moved 30+ pages of info and it's possible I've made some errors in placement. Again, as you look through the country threads, please keep an eye for continuity of information and any misplaced posts (e.g. Italian in the American thread - I've fixed this example I think). Either post a message here in the Forum Recommendations thread or send me a PM with anything you notice.

Next, I'll be going through the country-specific threads to do some light housekeeping on the moved posts and otherwise make the forum more readable.

I've also re-named and unlocked the General Discussion thread for use - well - for General Discussion related to overall topics related Victory Medals themselves.

Hello Rick,

Excellent work on the re-shuffle and reorganisation.

Having all the specific threads in their own country locations will make a measured improvement to the forum and general discussion. It will also all the other posters, lookers, and collectors to easily find specific information without having to wade through a 37 page single thread.

I am sure the general vic enthusiasts will be appreciative of your efforts.

Regards,

Rob

The finding of document groups, to go with the actual medals, is quite difficult when it comes to Japanese awards.

In a lot of cases these groups are split apart with the documents being sold separately to the medals themselves. It is quite a shame because they make such attractive complete groups once all the items are together.

One needs to be very circumspect when obtaining Japanese groups as you can never be sure if the documents you have are all the recipient was entitled to.

In the case of the group of documents that the linked post mentions, there were:

1914-15 Tsingtao War Dispatch Medal document (Dated November 7, 1915)
1914-20 Siberia War Dispatch Medal document. (Dated December 15, 1919)
1920 WW1 War Victory Medal document. (Dated December 15, 1919)

There is reference, on those documents, to the recipient also being awarded the fifth class of the Order of the Rising Sun or the Order of the Sacred Treasure. So in this particular case we know that there should be at least two more documents to the group to that recipient.

The effort to resurrect such a complete group can take a lot of time. This is also what makes it so much fun

Regards,
Rob

To all,

Here is one of my Indian groups. It was awarded to a Headman of the Supply and Transport Corps.

As Paul has indicated they are not particularly easy to obtain even in VF condition. They also rarely come with the original ribbons.

Regards,
Rob

Hi Gents,

Posted today in the Great Britain: Orders, Gallantry, Campaign Medals section by Chris Boonzaier is a link to eBay, where someone is selling 1 yard lengths of 'genuine silk victory medal ribbon' http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-YARD-36-INCHES-OF-ORIGINAL-MINT-CONDITION-WW1-SILK-VICTORY-MEDAL-RIBBON-/330871727272?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item4d097de4a8

Not cheap, though.

Bill

Hello Bill,

As time marches on so does the availability of original era ribbon, including the very finely made 'silk' ribbons. It is becoming much more difficult to obtain such ribbon especially to remount Commonwealth groups.

More and more we see the much more current era ribbons produced and they are nowhere near the same quality as the earlier 1920s-1930s ribbons. Most of the newer ribbons are quite unblended and certainly do not look as good as the original. Of course this doesn't include the Czechoslovak produced ribbons which were of a coarser weave and unblended in the first instance.

When I am remounting groups, or even singles, I will always attempt to obtain earlier era ribbons despite the rising prices.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Gents,

Just in today, my latest acquisition - I think it's the Czech Reissue Type 2, with the larger leaves on the flower to the right of Victory's feet:

The planchet is 36mm in diameter and just under 3mm thick. The colour is more gold than brass in the hand.

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Hello Bill,

Noting your comment about the planchet colour being more gold than brass, would you class it as a gold-gilt finish or more of a brassy finish?

When seen side-by-side these two varieties are immediately different.

Once you find one variety of the Reissue type 2 you then need to find the other.

Regards,

Rob

Are very difficult and actually, in most cases very expensive ..

I love this group of medal(s) medical staff / nurses and paramedics ..

This looks like the type vic unofficial?

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

Yes; it seems obtaining good quality Portuguese groups is becoming harder to do. Sometimes not all the individual pieces are in good condition. In this case all the pieces are in a good condition which adds to the group as a whole.

Sometimes it is the unusual groups, like those awarded to nurses, medical staff, support staff, that have interesting stories to them.

This looks like the type vic unofficial?

Lambert

Yes, it is an unofficial strike of the Portugal vic but not one I have seen before.

I am glad you like the group.

Regards,

Rob

Very beautiful Rob.

It is possible that this group belonged to a doctor ?

Best Regards

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

I do not know who the recipient of this group was. Unlike the Commonwealth countries that named their medals on the rims, other countries did not follow such practices and issued the medals unnamed.

It is, however, possible that the recipient was of the medical service, hence the Red Cross award.

Groups from Portugal are not often found.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

Here is a simple Portuguese group of 4:

* Order of the Portuguese Red Cross, Officer
* Military Medal for Exemplary Behaviour, gold
* Victory medal
* Portuguese Legion Dedication Gold medal

You will note that the vic has had the suspender repaired. It is quite probable that the thick wire suspender replaced a ball or some other suspender.

Regards,
Rob

An important question for the regular contributors:

I've moved almost 2 pages of topics from the original locked thread into the specific country threads. Most of this has been original photos posted in 2009 when the forum opened. I've noticed that many of you had already "reposted" a lot of this content into the new specific country threads when Jim created those - to "keep the discussion going" as was noted at that time. Now, there is some mild duplication (but clearly noticeable) within the first few posts of the specific country threads of photos both first posted in the original thread and some of the same photos "reposted" later directly into the country thread. (I hope that's comprehensible.)

So, the question is this...before I move more posts out of the locked thread; Is continuity of the country specific information - that means all info posted since 2009 in the forum regarding one country's Vic's in one single country thread worth a little duplication of photos?

For the most part, the posts are identifiable as duplicates and as I go through the country threads later, I will be able to remove gross confusion. But I think if I continue moving info from the locked thread (as has been suggested by members), some unavoidable duplication will occur.

I think I should continue to move the info out of the locked thread; continuity and consolidation of info is worth some minor duplication of photos in the early posts of the country specific thread. But it's your call gentlemen... What say you?

Hello IrishGunner,

I would recommend that all information goes into the country specific threads. Tim B and I discussed it the time that the vics received their own special interest area and it was on the list of things to do. Some of the gross duplication could, as you have suggested, be removed in due course.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rick,

I noticed that you have started a new thread - WW1 South African Vic Medals Info - and I'm wondering if this might lead to confusion with the existing South African Victory Medal thread. It might result in future postings being split between the two unnecessarily. Maybe your post in the new thread could just as fruitfully go in the existing one instead?

Bill

I would agree. The reason specific country threads were established is so each was a 'one-stop' area for that country. This avoided the somewhat meandering that occurred in the single 37 page thread.

While country threads may change tack on occasion at least all the information specific to that vic is in the one spot.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Gents,

On the reverse the letters between the 2 and 4 o'clock seem quite sharp and well formed, but they get much less sharp away from that quadrant. Similarly, the leaves on the right side seem sharp but on the left they have marks suggesting some movement of the die. The lion in the central shield looks sharp. There is also an odd 'shadow' effect behind the banner with 1914.

All comments welcome.

Bill

Hello Bill,

A nice pickup and example. It is not altogether unusual to see small die errors in these official type 1's. At least the Leisek makers marks are nice and strong. They have also been seen with quite muted and soft marks.

Regards,

Rob

Hello IrishGunner,

Welcome aboard.

Regards,
Rob

Hello Lambert,

There is an official Siam vic currently up for auction ebay (auction no: 121038792722). While it is a bit more worn than usually seen it is an official strike nonetheless.

Regards,
Rob

Hi Bill

Many thanks for a great comprehensive reply.

Do I take it that a more light Bronze looking Johnson may not necessarily mean that it's a Type 1 reissue, or is that a given? I have seen some Italian vics as bright as a UK Vic, though most are the more dark tanned brown.

Hello Martin,

The re-issue type 1 is of a very much lighter bronze finish. In addition it has a number of die differences compared to the official type1. The comparison post in the much larger main pinned thread shows the differences clearly.

I believe that a Type 2 reissue sold on ebay in that last few days, it was unmarked with regard to maker and Orsolini but had the MCMXIV on the reverse. It went for over £40. Would these still be regarded as collectible?

Yes; very much so. They are distinctive and are seen a bit more regularly than the re-issue type 1.

The cast copies sound daunting, do these look significantly inferior to originals?

Most definitely yes; The repro type 1 has a slight irridescent finish and has a clearly defined casting line present on the rim. The repro type 2 is extremely hard to find and has a much lower level of detail than the official version. There have been a number of pictures of the repro type 3 in this forum so that is a good reference.

Many thanks for your continued help

Martin

Regards,

Rob

To one and all,

Noting some other references to Alex Laslo's book on the Interallied victory medal series, there is such a copy of the 2nd Edition listed on ebay at the present. Such volumes do not appear all that often.

It is auction number: 140898513320. At the time of posting there is but 23 hours remaining of this auction, and it has a reserve price.

Regards,
Rob

And here are the close-ups.

Regards,
Rob

To all,

Here is another variety of the Milosh Obilich bravery medal. It is a gilt finished bronze variety in 36 mm. The bronze can be seen with wear to the high points of the medal. It has no makers mark on the reverse.

Apart from an illustration of such an example in the reference book 'Serbian and Yugoslavian Orders and Decorations' by Pavel Car, I can find no other reference to this particular variety. It comes from an unknown manufacturer.

Any thoughts would be welcomed. Close-ups of just the medal to follow.

Regards,
Rob

Many thanks again for your advice RobW

With regard to the scarcity of the various types, am i right in that the Belgian Vic was said to have been awarded in the range of 300,000 - 350,000? I ask this, as going by ebay values, they dont seem to command a much greater price than the Italian Vic, that was was said to be awarded in the region of 2,000,000. I appreciate that different variants may affect this, but scarcity doesnt always make something more expensive. Could it be that due to the naming of the British Vic to recipients, that this most common version maintains a value higher than it's scarcity level may warrant?

Hello Martin,

I would definitely agree that the named British vics, to all the commonwealth countries, would maintain a higher value due to the attribution as well as the ability to conduct research into the recipient. Unfortunately with the other country issues, that are not named, such research is difficult.

In regards the Belgian and Italian vics both are seemingly plentiful in the market hence the similar values, despite there being more sub-varieties of the Italian model.

Regards,

Rob

Martin Burr, on 19 Dec 2012 - 08:53, said:

Is there a rough guide as to the ballpark values of each version?

Martin

Hello Martin,

The question on medal values is probably one of the most discussed topics in any collecting field.

There is two areas here that need to be understood; market values and collector values. I think a close look at sales on the various online auction houses, ebay sites, and other online medal dealers should give you a general guide as to the prices you could expect for each of the varieties. There is then what a specific collector will pay for the same item; and this may not always be consistent with the market value.

I think the numbers minted estimate that is listed in the now increasingly dated Laslo reference, are a good guide, to the relative scarcity of each variety. That should at least give you an indication as to how frequently different pieces turn up in the market. That, in turn, should provide a guide as to what sort of price range you are likely to be looking at, to obtain the piece.

I would recommend you keep a price list and update it over time. This will give you a bench-mark to the prices listed. This won't take into account one-off's or other single anomalies for pieces that are just so hard to achieve (I use the hallmarked Brazil official type 1 as an example) but it would be a start.

Regards,
Rob

To all,

I have re-posted this post from the fakes sub-forum as it has relevance to the general topic of vic medal values.

Any other views would be appreciated?

Regards,
Rob

Is there a rough guide as to the ballpark values of each version?

Martin

Hello Martin,

The question on medal values is probably one of the most discussed topics in any collecting field.

There is two areas here that need to be understood; market values and collector values. I think a close look at sales on the various online auction houses, ebay sites, and other online medal dealers should give you a general guide as to the prices you could expect for each of the varieties. There is then what a specific collector will pay for the same item; and this may not always be consistent with the market value.

I think the numbers minted estimate that is listed in the now increasingly dated Laslo reference, are a good guide, to the relative scarcity of each variety. That should at least give you an indication as to how frequently different pieces turn up in the market. That, in turn, should provide a guide as to what sort of price range you are likely to be looking at, to obtain the piece.

I would recommend you keep a price list and update it over time. This will give you a bench-mark to the prices listed. This won't take into account one-off's or other single anomalies for pieces that are just so hard to achieve (I use the hallmarked Brazil official type 1 as an example) but it would be a start.

Regards,

Rob

This forum is a great read, I only wish i could get a copy of Laslo's book but dont have the $138 being asked for it at Amazon. A good reference book on the subject is well worth having.

Martin

Hello Martin,

I would suggest (if you can) that you hold off on obtaining any more pieces for your collection and buy the book instead. It is, as you stated, a good reference book well worth having. Having the book is a precursor to the knowledge and would better inform and guide subsequent purchasing choices.

The value of a good reference work cannot be underestimated, especially in such an international field as the vics.

Regards,

Rob