RobW

A Romanian group with a nice span of awards covering a long period of service.

Regards,

Rob

A Cuban officer group of 4 from the mid 1930's. Such a lovely decorative mounting bar as well

Regards,

Rob

Here is a standard Great Britain trio with 1914 Star and bar.

Regards,

Rob

And a Belgian group of 3 with a nice Fire Cross.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

Here are some of my Great War (WW1) medal bars. These have already been posted on the Interallied Victory medal thread but are of relevance here as well.

Starting the ball rolling with a nice Belgian group of 4.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob,

That would probably be my guess then, that initially, all bars were made with this hub on the ends until regulation placed the DS clasp on the bottom.

Tim

Hey Tim,

Just to add some clarifying detail. The medal posted before (#488) was contained in a longer S.G. Adams box that had the same 3 battle clasp named in purple ink on the outisde of the box in the same manner as that shown in a pic on post #276. The only thing missing from the set was the authorisation slip.

Regards,

Rob

Hello all,

I had previously seen a number of US vics with the DEFENSIVE SECTOR (DS) clasp placed at the top of all other battle clasps and have also seen a number of 4 - 5 clasp US vics with such a DS clasp, with spacers present on the bottom. In these cases the correct purple thread is still present at the top of the ribbon and wrap brooch indicating that is how the medals were assembled.

It sounds reasonable that the earliest issue of DS clasps that were produced had spacers before it was established that they should go on the bottom. This would make sense as the final DS clasp was produced, among other reasons, to supplant the requirement for a FIRST ARMY or SECOND ARMY clasp. The approval for it occurred a bit later than the original battle clasps. I have a pic of a US vic with the FIRST and SECOND ARMY clasps attached and there is no DS clasp, but this is just a representative pic to illustrate what the clasps would have looked like and not an actual medal.

In this 3 bar US vic, there has been no tampering with the suspension ring, and the ribbon is still correctly affixed at the top. In addition there is consistent clasp and ribbon wear. There is no extra wear near the base of the ribbon which would suggest clasps have been removed. This indicates to me that it is all good.

To Hugh,

Thanks for the added clarification. I re-checked your pics and it is clear on the close-up (post #476) that the DS claps has spacers. This was something that I didn't pickup on at the time.

Again an interesting side-issue with vics. Always something to keep one busy.

Regards,

Rob

And the close-up of the two bars. It is quite easy to see the minor design differences between the official and the unofficial clasps.

Regards,

Rob

And the close-up of the makers mark. Despite the blurriness of the scan the 'S J' mark should still be apparent.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

Here is another variety, this time by the maker of Stefano Johnson of Milan. This is indicated by the small 'S J' at the obverse centre base beneath the leaves.

Also attached to this medal are two Albanian bars; one official and the other unofficial. The bars 'Albania 1919' and 'Albania 1920' are official. In addition there exists three unofficial bars marked 'Albania 1916', 'Albania 1917' and 'Albania 1918'.

While the official Albania bars are rarely seen strangely enough the 3 unofficial bars are even more rarely seen. Note how these clasps have a straight backstrap without the locking hasp seen in earlier posted examples.

Close ups to follow.

Regards,

Rob

And here is a close-up of the clasps themselves. The spacer on the DEFENSIVE SECTOR clasp is immediately noticeable.

Regards,

Rob

Hello all,

Here is a standard US vic with 3 clasps attributable to many of the Divisions of the AEF.

While it looks just the same as every other US vic, what makes this one a bit different is the fact that the DEFENSIVE SECTOR clasp has spacers on it. This can be seen on closer inspeciton but may not be immediately noticeable in this pic.

All of the battle clasps had spacers on them to ensure a uniform gap between clasps on the ribbon except for the DEFENSIVE SECTOR clasp. This was because it was always supposed to be on the bottom and therefore needed no clasps. In this example it has spacers and I have seen many examples with both types of bars with or without spacers. I will proffer that the DEFENSIVE SECTOR clasp with spacers is seen less regularly though. I can offer no explanation for this but would be happy to hear from other US vic collectors.

Close-ups of the bars to follow.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

This medal has been produced by at least 7 official manufacturers and at 2, possibly more, unofficial manufacturers.

The official manufacturers are listed as:

* CFML (Lorioli-Castelli, Milano)

* M. Nelli. Inc (Mario Nelli & C, Firenze)

* Sachhini (Milano)

* S‧I‧M (Società Italiana Medaglia, Rome)

* S‧I‧M ROMA (Società Italiana Medaglia, Rome)

* S J (Stefano Johnson, Milano)

* No marking (Unknown)

Unofficial manufactures are identified as:

* M. Delande and 1 other.

All of these varieties have both minor and major differences in the strikes and the metals used in production. In addition to the medals with the standard tri-colour ribbon there are also varieties with different ribbons that were awarded to the Merchant Navy, and unofficially to the State Railways. The State Railways were issued a ribbon but were never officially awarded the medal; even if the recipients used the medal anyway.

Such a variety of medals make for a very interesting collecting field.

Hope this is of use.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

Here is a close-up of the Sacchini-Milano variety posted in #5 above.

The makers mark of the 'M.Nelli Inc' variety is proving to be difficult to scan. Needless to say it is in the same position as the 'Sacchini-Milano' mark. There is a variety produced by S.Johnson of Milan. In this case the makers mark is immediately below the wreath at centre bottom of the obverse, simply marked 'S J'. When I can find my example I shall post a pic.

Regards,

Rob

And here is the close up of the S‧I‧M variety.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

Here is another example of an Italian War Commemorative Medal. It is produced in a much darker bronze finish and has the makers mark of 'S‧I‧M' of Rome, underneath the bottom of the bust of King Vittorio Emanuele III. 'S‧I‧M' stood for 'Società Italiana Medaglia' and was another medal manufacturer from Rome. There is yet another variety that is marked 'S‧I‧M ROMA'.

Close up of the mark to follow.

Regards,

Rob

Really nice FULL sets what you have here Rob. I especially like certificates and idea to have a full set.

Hello Timo,

The set is not complete - yet!

The only remaining variety that I am still looking for is the example in posts #8-9 of this thread. That example has much shorter sword hilts, minor obverse and reverse design variations and much thicker date fonts. When I have that variety my set will be complete.

It is always a good challenge to identify the myriad of varieties of a particular medal and then to spend some not inconsiderable time locating them all. Much fun is had along the way

Regards,

Rob

And here is another.

On this occasion the medal is only 13mm in diameter but it still has such fine detail.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

To change direction here are a couple of miniature Commemorative WW1 medals in different sizes.

The first is from a small French medal miniature bar that showed service in the Orient as well as Serbia.

This medal is 17.4 mm in diameter.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

To add a little bit of a change here is another Commemorative Medal but this is in miniature.

For a mini only 11mm in diameter it is still a finely detailed piece.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob,

Sounds good, will wait to see what it looks like.

Tim

Hello Tim,

As it turns out the medal in question actually has the standard Paris Mint mark and BR. I will continue the search for the Bertrand model.

Here is the pics of the Paris mint variety.

Regards,

Rob

Greetings All.

I have a medal that I believe is the Syria Medal Order of the Palestine - Israel War 1948, but I am not sure. I would appreciate AS MUCH information about this medal as possible; first verifying that my identification is correct, what specific organization issued it, who qualified to receive it, when it was created, who made it, etc. I was told by the seller it was made in France in 1951. Every tidbit of information will be useful.

Take care. Linas

Hello Linas,

The only information I could add is that yes your identification of the medal is correct.

The inscriptions on the obverse are; on the left 1948 (AD) and Palestine on the right in Arabic script.

The Order was created on 18 December 1951 and awarded for bravery and service in the battles in Palestine in 1948 and 1949. It was awarded in very small number to Syrian personnel (estimated at approximately 8,000), serving in two infantry brigades, a mechanised battalion, and a very small air force.

The Order was produced by the Paris firm of Arthus Bertrand and has been seen contained in a plain paper envelope.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

Thanks Rob! Brilliant information - exactly what I was looking for!

Great award and I am so happy for the pick up.... especially because it was total random find

Did you received my last email?

Hello Timo,

Yes I did. The Serb medals are always a nice find and do turn up in some unexpected places.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Rob -

Thanks for showing those non-British groups. This thread has piqued my interest in these types of groups and I find myself now actively searching for them. Miniature groups mostly - partly because of cost, but mainly because I have found that I enjoy the mini more - I marvel at the sometimes intricate detail, and probably due to the cost factor too if I am honest.

You have mentioned that you have help from friends in finding these gems, but are there any sites or auction houses that you could recommend to watch?

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

I am always impressed at the level of craftsmanship displayed in mini medals of the Great War era, and that is something that I don't think is seen in mini's of the current era. Despite there being particularly small versions of the same mini, as seen in some French vic mini's of 11mm and 13mm there is still a lot of detail (posts #151-153). Even some of the Italian mini groups are very nicely finished in very minute detail (posts #110-112). In that regard they are worth collecting and are somewhat cheaper than their full size cousins.

Finding these groups, either in mini form or full-size is somewhat an exercise in patience and being able to spot a good group when it should come up. Most of my groups have been obtained from fellow collectors or private sales. Apart from some more well known European auction houses, Ebay in its many guises is also a place where interesting items are known to pop up randomly, especially in France and Belgium.

Most of my more interesting items will not be posted mainly because they are not located in close enough proximity for to me to scan. At some stage in the medium term I will re-unite all my collection and scan some more.

Regards,

Rob

Hi all,

I picked up this medal yesterday from local fair. Quick check of internet gave me an answer - Serbia Bravery Medal.

I still know wery little about this:

Is it officers ONLY award or others got it as well?

Is there any indications, what can tell me, who made my medal?

How many this type bravery medals was awarded in total (aprox)?

Any other extra information would be great!!!

Hello Timo,

Here is some additional information that may help. Your medal was not produced by Huguenin Frères because it does not have the signature mark of 'Huguenin' on the reverse just above the wreath at the centre bottom. Based on some comparisons of the text on the obverse, as well as the inscription and sword handles, and hilts on the reverse, I would suggest that your example was produced by the French firm of Arthus Bertrand.

According to the medal regulations it was to have been made in 36mm diameter but copies were also manufactured in 30mm diameter, hence you regularly see medals in both sizes. While the medal was produced in gilt-bronze and silver, there have also been other examples produced in a silver alloy, silver-plated bronze, as well as brass. In addition I have seen an example by Arthus Bertrand that was produced in gold with hallmarks on the suspension ring. It is not uncommon for the gilt-bronze examples to be seen with all the gilt finish worn and rubbed off.

The medal was awarded as follows:

* In Gold - to officers for 'valour tested in battle' and NCOs in exceptional cases 'for fearless bravery in battle'.

* In Silver - to NCOs and other ranks.

The qualification criteria was taken from the very well illustrated and comprehensive reference book on the subject: 'Serbian and Yugoslavian Orders and Decorations, 1859-1941' by Pavel Car and Tomislav Muhić, 2009. This is well recommended.

Here is my 30mm example for comparison. It is part of a larger group awarded to a Greek officer.

Regards,

Rob