RobW

To all,

Here is the first of a few pics.

A Belgian vic with 'Mothers Bar'. This is an original bar, noting that the black enamel is flush with the top surface and edge rim of the bar. There is a later contemporary copy of the bar which is slightly longer and wider than the original, and has a wider rim. It does not however have the black enamel centre; it is just a black painted hollowed recess. I have a contemporary copy as well which I shall post a pic of for comparison and reference.

I have finally worked out to use my scanner more effectively which should result in better images.

More to follow.

Regards,

Rob

Well done Rob - I bet that was the badge Tom remembers. The boomerang could easily look 'clear' if the lighting was wrong.

All these great ref. books you keep showing - my bookshop in UK is going 'crazy' trying to find them. Should you ever find another copy of the Slouch hat one, I will very happily add your costs and postage.

I often wonder how many Aussies belong to the Forum - I know that not enough of them are posting !! I wonder if the Chairman ever posts a breakdown by Country - mind you, he's probably getting over one after all the up-dates.....

What could be our next Aust. topic ?

Hello Mervyn,

I will check the local Sydney resources tomorrow and reply by PM if any are available. In the meantime, and while awaiting a response, I would suggest you drop over to <abebooks.com>. I know that there are a few copies there.

I'll let you know what I find out.

As for posting; you never know some Australians, they could just be a shy lot !!

Regards,

Rob

Back to the victory medals...I especially like that one Rob showed with the Czech style ribbon! Made me go back and dig up my PICS of the only Belgian Victory Medal I have.

Tim

Hello Tim,

Being just a victory medal collector I have a few different Belgian victory medal varieties and sub-varieties. Out of all the victory medals I would say that the Belgian issue is a favourite due to the fineness of the strike and design, but that is just a personal perspective!

What makes it more unique to me is that the design was used as the interim model authorised to be worn by Czechoslovak forces until their own specific model was produced later from 1926 onward, as well as the French produced uniface model and the other French produced version by 'Chobillon' of the late 1920s-1930s. It is particularly interesting that it could be manufactured by at least 5 different firms from at least 3 different countries.

In addition I have also seen a French Great War medal group with a French-Belgian vic uniface model, instead of the official French vic model. I also have a Belgian vic full size in silver with a hallmark on the suspension ring and a mini in silver as well; and within the purely Belgian produced version there are a number of different finishes (dark or lighter bronze or a buffed appearance) that add to the mixture.

When I have time I will post pics of some more different varieties of the Czech-Belgian vics that I have which were produced by Alexander Leisek and Edward Riemer, as well as others.

I hope they will be of use to others.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob,

My main interest is in the WW1 Campaign in German East Africa, in which Belgian troops from the Belgian Congo took part. I've always wondered what a group to a Belgian soldier would look like, so thank you for sharing this nice miniature group. I'd be interested in seeing images of any other such groups.

Jean-Paul

Hello Jean Paul,

No worries, happy to share ! Being an Interallied Victory medal collector that particular Belgian African mini group is probably my nicest victory medal group, aside from a nice Cuban group of 4. The only other Belgian group I have is a full-size group with a War Cross with palm, Yser Medal, Vic, and War Commemorative medal with 4 service bars.

What piqued my curiosity with this particular Belgian African mini group was the fact that it was indeed awarded for service in Africa which further illustrated to me the global impact of the Great War. While a great deal of interest in the Great War has focused on those events that occurred in the France and Belgium areas, some people forget that the Great War was, in effect, fought on a global scale. I recall having a wish list of items that I felt would enhance my victory medal collection and one of those was a nice mini group from somewhere else other than a European battlefield. As luck would have it I managed to obtain this Belgian African mini group shortly thereafter.

I shall post pics of my Belgian full-size medal group when I have the time.

Regards,

Rob

Thanks Mervyn.

I now need to find a Great War issue slouch hat at a bargain price and obviously one that once belonged to a Lighthorseman, with plume of course.

Tony

Hello Tony,

For those that have an interest, either passing or dedicated, in the Australian slouch hat I would recommend the following reference. 140 pages, with colour and black and white illustrations.

ISBN: 0909458235

Copyright: 2002

Hope it is of use.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Mervyn,

However, when I have time this week I shall peruse all the volumes I have to try and locate the badge Tom described. The difficulty will be as both the Kangaroo and Boomerang are considered iconic in Australia it could be any badge amongst a sea of possibilities. I will also consult with my dealer friend in Sydney who owns all the Cossum references, including those that I borrowed, and see what he knows.

More to follow when I have done some research.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

After looking through all my references during the week the only badge that I can find that comes even close to that described by Tom is a local New South Wales state Infantry Battalion badge. The pictures is posted below. It has been taken from Part 1 of the Cossum badge book. I have also inquired with those dealers and fellow collectors far more knowledgeable than I in Sydney to no avail.

I hope that this has helped if only to reduce the list of badge suspects.

Regards,

Rob

Most impressed and great that you took the time to post them. I'm trying to order the ones you posted earlier and when the new book on Aust. badges is published - perhaps someone could alert us with the publisher's name ?

Rob - since you have the books - see if you can find the badge Tom described ??? We seem to have - at last - some good Aussie posts - we must try to keep them going. We may be out numbered - but, never out classed ..............

Hello Mervyn,

No problems. The first three books (Cossum badges - Parts 1 -3) are not mine but are actually copies of a dealer friend in Sydney. I managed to borrow them in order to illustrate their covers for fellow collectors in this thread so that they could see what exists. They are indeed rare items. I fear my originals have been lost in the passage of time.

As a caveat I am not a 'badge person' but an Interallied Victory medal collector. However, when I have time this week I shall peruse all the volumes I have to try and locate the badge Tom described. The difficulty will be as both the Kangaroo and Boomerang are considered iconic in Australia it could be any badge amongst a sea of possibilities. I will also consult with my dealer friend in Sydney who owns all the Cossum references, including those that I borrowed, and see what he knows.

More to follow when I have done some research.

Regards,

Rob

This is the last volume in my library of purely Australian references by Mr Cossum. 124 pages with illustrations in black and white.

ISBN: 0 949530 14 X

Copyright 1997.

I hope they will be of use to others.

Regards,

Rob

Here is another volume on the brass buttons used in the Defence Forces. 72 pages with illustrations in black and white.

ISBN: 0 7316 3083 1

Copyright 1988.

This volume is a 'must have' particularly for those that are interested in the 'Rising Sun Badge'.

This volume is 40 pages in length and illustrates, in black and white, 148 varieties of the Rising Sun badge as well 20 varieties of the Rising Sun collar badges.

No ISBN.

Copyright 1986.

Here is Part 3.

ISBN: 0 949530 05 0.

Copyright 1985.

Here is Part 2.

ISBN: 0 949530 02 6.

Copyright 1983.

Here is Part 1.

ISBN: 0 949530 11 5 (PART 1)

Copyright 1994.

Hello Mervyn,

I would agree that outside of Australia they are difficult items to find.

I had all 3 volumes back in the early 1990s but have since managed to either lend them to another collector or mislaid them. A dealer friend in Sydney has all 3 volumes and has indicated, that while Mr Cossum does not intend to provide an update to the books, another publishing house and author is apparently going to attempt an update. When I have more information I will post here.

To all,

As fate would have it I have just relocated copies of some of my Australian badge books by J.K. Cossum that had been previously not been seen for a while.

As an aide to others I thought it would be advantageous to post images here of all the J.K. Cossum reference books I'm aware of. I am not sure of how available all these books will be to those outside of Australia but it is far better to know these references exist than not. Not wishing to infringe on anyone's copyright I will only post pictures of the covers for the general reference and awareness of all.

I will start with the series of three books on Australian Army badges, that were discussed earlier in this post, and will follow with others that have been published later.

The format will be cover image, relevant ISBN, and any publishing details.

I hope they are of use.

More to follow.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

Here is another nice miniature version of one of the other Fascist medals from the period. It is the Commemorative Medal for march on Rome, type 'E' by Johnson (according to the Brambilla reference). The ribbon is a lovely colour; not quite yellow but more of a mustard colour.

Hope they are of use.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

To add to the store of pictures here is a nice miniature version of the Commemorative Medal for the Fascist Campaign 'Italy Now and Always' in bronze.

As has been previously stated the medal did come with a number of different dated year bars. This mini has 3 but they are not dated presumably indicating 3 years service sometime between 1919-1922.

More to follow.

Regards,

Rob

Followed by part two.

The U.S. medal variety is listed without any battle (engagement) orservice (country) clasps which would necessitate a separate display initself.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

As requested by Jim Z and to assist others, here are some panoramic comparison pictures of the archetypal specimens from each of relevant countries in the victory medal series from my collection.

While there are other strikes and many different unofficial and reproduction varieties, those that are displayed here are what are deemed 'official' strikes.

While I have a much higher resolution version of the combined panoramic comparison I am unable to post it due to new member restrictions. I have posted these smaller matching items to negate the need for too much side scrolling.

I hope it is of use to others.

Here's part one.

Regards,

Rob

And the reverses.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

Here is a recent group I obtained, with a nice Belgian vic mini, among others. The Belgian vic mini is 13.5 mm in diameter.

I was interested in the level of detail on the orders, and in particular the enamel work. Due to the limited number of participants the campaign medal for the African Campaign is not often seen.

L-R, Officer of the Order of the Crown, Officer of the Royal Order of the Lion, with palm, War Cross, with palm, Commemorative Medal of the African Campaign, Volunteer Combatants Medal, Belgian Victory Medal, and War Commemorative Medal.

Regards,

Rob

Thanks, Rob. I would like copies of all of them - if you have them, do they have an ISBN in the front pages. Would help to locate them. They might of course, be old books and hard to find. Mervyn.

Tony - they must come on the market - perhaps Stuart can help - he has a lot of contacts in the helmet collecting fields - drop him an IM.

I was always pleased thet I kept my Qld. Regt. one - they are quite hard to find outside of Aussie.

Hello Mervyn,

I would agree that outside of Australia they are difficult items to find.

ISBN for volume 1 : ISBN 0949530018

ISBN for volume 2 : ISBN 0949530026

ISBN for volume 3 : ISBN 0949530050

I had all 3 volumes back in the early 1990s but have since managed to either lend them to another collector or mislaid them. A dealer friend in Sydney has all 3 volumes and has indicated, that while Mr Cossum does not intend to provide an update to the books, another publishing house and author is apparently going to attempt an update. When I have more information I will post here.

I have found copies in the past at some well known used bookstores on the web. I always use <abebooks.com> and <used.addall.com>. I think you might find them there.

A small picture from an unnamed auction house will show some detail of the book covers for vol's 1 & 2 for your reference.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

If you are at all interested in Australian hat badges, as well as general issue unit badges, I would recommend that you try and locate copies of 3 very good books by the Australian author J.K. Cossum. Aside from being marvelously illustrated in black and white, these books are considered the main references for all things Australian hat badges and more.

The titles are:

a. Australian Army Badges, A Collectors Reference Guide, Part 1, 1930-1942, 35 pp

b. Australian Army Badges, A Collectors Reference Guide, Part 2, 1900-1930, 56 pp, and

c. Australian Army Badges, A Collectors Reference Guide, Part 3, 1948-1985, 64 pp.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

Thanks very much; here's hoping for a good outcome!

Hugh

Hugh,

As far as I have been able to determine, in regards an order of precedence, until 1939 Czechoslovakia only had only 4 official (government approved) decorations.

These were:

a. The Order of the Falcon, which was established in 5 clases but only one was awarded.

b. War Cross 1918

c. Revolution Medal

d. Victory Medal

All other medals listed in the book were described as so called semi-official, established either by regiments, veteran organizations or others, which were additionally approved for wearing the by Defence Ministry. This of course didn't include the following:

a. Volunteer's Cross (Pamětní Kříž Československého Dobrovolce), 1918-1919

b. Commemorative Decoration for the Czechoslovak Volunters of 1918-1919

I would assume that these awards would be worn after the main 1914-1918 awards and before those awarded for service later in 1939 onwards.

In addition to these original 4 pieces there was also the Order of the White Lion (instituted in 1922). The Order of White Lion was created in two divisions (civil and military) 5 classes and 2 medals each. It was however awarded strictly to foreigners only. The only Czech bearer was the President of the Republic as a Grand Master of the order.

This information has been gratefully provided to me via a Czech friend in Prague and subsequently translated/parsed into English.

I hope that this helps.

Regards,

Rob

What a treasure trove of information! Thanks so much.

I couldn't quite tell from your writeup. Is Rick's hollow piece one of the normal issue?

Thanks,

Hugh

To Hugh and Rick Research,

Here are a few clarifications and additions to the earlier information about the Czech Revolution Medal.

As everybody serving in Czech legions was eligible, many variants were produced. The medal was designed by the French sculptor Antoine Bourdel, and it is his initials 'AB' which can be found on some varieties.

The Czech medal book referred to previously lists 4 main varieties. These are:

a. French production with signature

b. Production 1918 - 38 light bronze with signature

c. Dark bronze with signature

d. The same as 'b' but without a signature

There are also more varieties indicated but unlisted with hollow pieces being described as quite common, so that should clear up the mystery of Ricks piece. I recently picked up a second copy of the 1997 book as well.

Order of precedence information to follow shortly.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

Just to confuse the issue I recently obtained this official French vic and it does appear to not have any marks, either cornucopia, triangle, or BR on the reverse. Is it possible that another manufacturer produced this based on the official dies? The only other difference I have noticed is that the makers mark is a bit further from the edge of the rim than that seen on other varieties.

Any ideas??

Regards,

Rob