RobW

Hi David,

A nice example you have picked up. Did you manage to obtain all three of his medals or just the vic? The solder joint on the obverse of the suspension barrel is very noticeable.

Regards,

Rob

To one and all,

After a search over the last 18 months I finally managed to locate the example with the much shorter sword hilts.

That completes my set of varieties.

If there are any other varieties they would be good to see.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Lambert,

Hello Rob.,

It's good to have you back ..

Lambert

I'm always happy to help out and contribute where I am able. Sometimes my time is quite limited but I still hang out here and profer help when I can offer something of value.

Regards,

Rob

Hi David,

I don't have my book with me, so I don't remember which version is which, but he said it is 1914, NOT 1915. So it would be whichever version has no names inscribed on the obverse.

There are two different varieties that have both no names on the obverse and the dates 1914 on the reverse. These are identified by Mr Laslo in his reference as:

* Official type 4.

* Unofficial type 1.

As Lambert has pointed out, in post #165, the illustration shows the 'Unofficial type 1'. Despite this variety being unofficial, both it and the official type 4 are seen much more rarely than the Johnson, Lorilo-Castelli or Sacchini varieties.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Bill,

Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition - the repro Portugal vic by Delande:

The Deland square stamp with the bee and BRONZE on the edge.

BRONZE on the suspension ring.

Sadly, someone has polished away the patina, but I haven't come across one for sale before so I'll put up with a shiny medal!

Any comments welcome.

Bill

A nice pickup of an example which is not common. Not all examples of this variety have the markings you describe; some are marked and others are not. Irrespective of the polishing it is in good condition.

Regards,

Rob

Hello David,

My collection grows: the elusive Rumania unofficial type 3A.

You have picked up a good example of a relatively scarce item. As Lambert has indicated it is attached to the Belgian produced ribbon. For a more contemporary look you may want to replace the ribbon with some of the French variety.

Either way your example is nicely toned and in good condition. A good pickup.

Regards,

Rob

Hello David,

Further to my last post there are some significant differences between the South African type 1 and type 2 varieties. More details, including pictures, can be found in posts #2 & #3 on the South African sub-thread of this forum.

Regards,

Rob

Hello David,

I recently acquired a Riemer unofficial version and, since I now have two of them, I thought I'd offer it for trade. Would anyone be interested in trading for one of the following: Great Britain Type 1, Greece Type 3, Italy Type 5, Romania Type 3 or 3A, South Africa Type 1.

You have certainly requested some interesting items in trade. For your awareness; the Great Britain type 1, Greece type 3, Italy type 5, and Romanian type 3A are probably some of the rarest of the series to find. They are seen rarely and few have them in their collections. I wish you good luck in your trading endeavours.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Bill,

HI Gents,

It's said of London buses, that you wait hours for one, then two turn up together. I'm hoping this is also the case with the Type 1! My latest acquisition:

The ring is a bit mis-shapen. This medal is darker brown that the one in post # 162, the surface is rather smoother, and there is a slight reddish tinge, especially on the reverse. However, the suspension is soldered. I notice now that the Type 1 doesn't have such a marked plinth for the suspension, as this also shows. The edge matches the obverse and reverse in tone.

The medal was awarded to Cpl A Hodgson of the RE and Labour Corps - another of those, Rob! Sadly, there is no document in his Service Records to show when the medal was sent to him - is it possible to determine this from the information on the MIC?

So, am I right with this one, too? All comments welcome.

Bill

While the medal certainly does have the tone and patina of a type 1 it is a bit difficult to be certain. A gentle clearing of the residue on the barrel suspender will give more of an idea if it is indeed soldered.

It is most interesting that the member in question was also in the Labour Corps. There may be a pattern forming here. To echo what Gunner 1 has indicated the MIC will be no help as the details are not provided, unlike officer MICs which have much more detail; including dates. Other than an acknowledgement receipt, as per your Private Kimble example, the extant medal rolls may provide some more contextual information.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Bill,

Hi Rob,

Were your two Labour Corps men early discharges like my Pte Kimble? With a big enough database of the dates of issue of the Type 1 vics we might be able to see a common thread - early discharges, certain units - did the Labour Corps admin staff have a particular order in which they issued the medals to their people, for example.

Regards,

Bill

My collection and the associated research files, for each medal and group, are in long-term storage and not located with me. From my master collection list the entries for both of the vics, in question, are to members of the Labor Corps. Interestingly both were also in the Devon Regiment so there may be some link there.

It is interesting that now we have at least three pairs to members of the Labor Corps with the type 1.

Regards,
Rob

Hi Bill,

Hi Gents,

Well, I'm hoping my search for the elusive Official Type 1 is over. Just received today, a WW1 pair to Private A L Kimble of the Devonshires and Labour Corps. Joined aged 40, discharged in 1917.

So, am I right? All comments welcome.

Bill

I would agree that you have definitely managed to obtain a type 1. I would also be checking the solder joint on the suspension ring as well to see if it corresponds with that seen on others. Interestingly enough I also have two type 1 vics to members of the Labour Corps.

Is there a common thread here with members having a parent corps and then moving onto the Labour Corps later?

Good pick up.

Regards,
Rob

To all,

The addition of any reference material, including updated illustrated books, are a welcome addition to the collecting fraternity.

I am sure there will be many on this forum that will benefit from such a reference.

Regards,
Rob

Hi Lambert,

Hello Rob,

I looked around the rim without removing the Ribbon, but no other brand, just "MADE IN FRANCE" on the edge of the medal. This is not good?

Regards

Lambert

There are sometimes, but not always, extra markings on the rim in addition to the 'MADE IN FRANCE' mark. If there aren't any extra markings that is okay as well.

All in all you have a good specimen.

Regards,
Rob

Hello Lambert,

All

I realized this today by mail.
A "copy", "MADE IN FRANCE" U.S Vic
That auction was here in Brazil, was bought by a well agreeable price.

You have picked up a nice example with the French ribbon as well. The 'MADE IN FRANCE' mark is also nice and strong. Are there any other markings on the rim? I would be looking for a triangle shaped makers mark as well.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Jean-François,

I would agree with Dave's comments regarding the verdigris and other marks.

While there is another example on Barry Turks' emedals site it is much more expensive than the example list on ebay. It all comes down to how much you are willing to pay compared to the condition of the item. With some careful cleaning you could clean the item up and end up with a nice example.

As most vic type collectors are aware both the Siam and Brazil vic are the hardest country examples to obtain.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

I was interested in the type 3a, but that went for nearly $400, and I just wasn't prepared to spend that at the moment.

God ..! $ 400,00

Lambert

To put David and Lambert's comments into perspective.

The Romanian unofficial type 3a is the rarest of the Romanian unofficial strikes. It is seen very rarely and far less often than the official strikes. Many have proffered opinions on the type 3a but very few have the item in their collection and even less examples appear in the market. This most recent example that was sold for US $ 392 is consistent with others that I have seen in the past. It goes to the adage of what a collector is willing to pay for a specific item.

Regards,
Rob

Hello to all.

Does anyone know any article about the false Polish Victory medal?

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

There has been one particular article, written quite a few years ago, that had the initial details on the 'discovery' of these Polish victory medals. I do have a copy of the article but I shall need to trawl through some storage boxes to find it. It may take some time as my collection is not located with me. As far as I can recall the article had the background where the purported items were found in some boxes at a militaria show. The details are pure fiction, written I believe, to lend credibility to the items so that they could sell as a commercial and 'scarce' item.

Of course, knowledgeable collectors already know that Poland did not issue a victory medal and their first campaign medal, was that awarded for the 1918-1921 wars; which shaped the borders of Poland.

Unfortunately these fake Polish items are only good enough to fool the inexperienced or new collector that neither has the Laslo reference work or the acess to such a form as this.

Regards,

Rob

Hello David,

This example has the same die characteristics as the one in post # 127 of this thread.

It is a nice example of yet another variety that is similar in appearance to the official type 2.

Regards,
Rob

Hello David,

Just got this in the mail: Greek unofficial type 3, "missing O" variety. Ignore my cat's paw in the picture of the obverse.

A nice example in good condition. It is, however, the unofficial type 2 not type 3. It has been previously suggested that this was produced by the French manufacturer M. Delande.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Bill,

Hi Gents,

I recently acquired what appears to be a Belgian Official Type 1, but it has a couple of odd features:

The name Paul Dubois appears on the obverse, but the reverse is off-set by about 10 degrees right. The ball suspension is rather crudely soldered to the planchet, and the planchet seems to have been coated in gold lacquer - it's worn off on the high spots, particularly on the reverse. The ball is not coated, and seems to be bronze.

Bill

I would echo david's thoughts in that the medal itself looks fine although most likely repaired. The ball suspender does appear to be a bit larger than that normally seen and the registration shift in the reverse design is certainly interesting. I have seen other Belgian vics that have off-centre obverse-reverse dies so that can be explained.

I have also seen vics either silvered or with a gilt finish so that in itself is not unknown.

A nice example nonetheless.

Regards,
Rob

Hello David,

I received a Belgian official in the mail a few days ago, because, despite its poor condition, it was cheap and I wanted the silver bars, When it arrived, I found the planchet to be noticeably thicker than my other Belgian official example. There are no makers marks or the word "BRONZE" along the edge, so it's a regular Type 1, as far as I can tell. Anyone have an opinion on the differing thickness?

Not all French produced Belgian vics were marked on the rim with either the maker stamp or the word BRONZE. Some have no markings at all and have a thicker planchet with file like striations.

A combined pic of the obverse/reverse, showing your thicker planchet example, alongside the thinner example may be of assistance. This way there might be a few more clues, in particular the size of the ball suspender.

Regards,
Rob

Hello Oliver,

Gentlemen! Need help! I want to buy interallied medal Greece! Original?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271407011224&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

Regards.

There is nothing wrong with the medal in the listing. The ribbon is also correct although very tattered. This happens quite often with a particular type of French produced ribbon. The box is not the correct one.

The correct box, from the NOCQ official strikes produced by the French firm of Canale, were plain cardboard with a light green colour. Illustrations of the official NOCQ strike and the boxes are contained at posts # 3,4 and 20 of this thread.

I would probably wait until an example came along with a ribbon in better condition.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Dave,

But for this example, one may as well buy from the source for only $47.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/b0070-World-War-I-Victory-medal-for-Siam-Thailand-/350976369652

It doesn't really matter if they are advertised as reproductions by the original seller, as they will inevitably be advertised by a later seller as original. Therefore, they should be stamped as copy directly on the item.

I couldn't agree more, that reproductions should be marked accordingly. I do, however, not hold any hope that this will occur in the marketplace. Vendors will always be looking for an opportunity to make extra money on their wares and if ambiguous titles and listings will lead to increased profits I would expect that the practice will continue. We can all wish that such unscrupulous behaviour does not exist but in this market, where price and profits seem paramount, we are not likely to see a change in vendor practices.

Regards,
Rob

To one and all,

Whoever buys has no idea that it is a copy, it will be a very expensive copy.

Lambert

Rob,

I do enjoy seeing what out there, thanks for the heads up on the medal in questions and its number. Its a nice medal, and as I do not have an original or reproduction Siam. I would very much think about bidding on this medal as a fill in if: I were under 70 years old and the cost was reasonable.

need example with a good and sound suspension knob.

Regards, Jim

As Lambert indicated, and Jim surmised; the medal did indeed go for a respectable price of € 256 (US $ 350). Quite a tidy sum for a 'reproduction'.

This particular reproduction strike is one of the nicer in the market. It has good clean lines and is very representative of an original. In this regard it is a good candidate as a 'place filler' until a collector can organise or afford the original strike.

The challenge, of course, remains whether or not these items are listed for sale as 'original' or 'reproductions'.

Regards,
Rob

Hello Jim,

What is its number on ebay?

The auction is on ebay france (auction no: 181317282284).

Regards,
Rob