RobW

Hello David,

This is the other one I'm concerned may be fake...in this case because I got it on eBay and because it seems very shiny, which I didn't think the Romanian ones were. This is the "Crecia" unofficial version.

I am awaiting the Romanian official, which I got for $200 on eBay...seems cheap, but since the seller is in Bucharest, that allays my fears of it being fake.

There are a number of different finishes; shiny or dull bronze, that Romanian vics are seen in. In this case you have a good example of a 'reverse N' variety (unofficial type 2 in both Laslo volumes) that happens to have a shiny finish. It is illustrated as plates 72-73 in the first edition.

Regards,
Rob

Hello David,

This is one of two I have that I'm concerned might be fake--the other being Romania, which I will post momentarily. I got this from jkmilitaria.com, and am mainly concerned because it seems to be in such good condition...seems like it'd have at least a few scratches if it was really 90+ years old. I understand it to be an official Type 2, if it is indeed real.

As Bill has indicated, there is nothing wrong with the piece. A nice official type 2 with nice French ribbon in good condition.

Regards,
Rob

Hello David,

Can someone briefly describe the difference between the official Type 1 and 2? I have the 1st edition of Laslo's book, and wasn't even aware until I started posting here that there is an official Type 2, as that doesn't seem to be in the 1st edition.

In the first edition of Mr Laslo's work he lists an official type and another as the 'unofficial type 4', on page 23. These are then illustrated in that volume as plates 18-19 and 21-22 respectively at the back of the book.

The 'unofficial type 4' is re-listed as the 'official type 1' and the 'official type' is re-listed as the 'official type 2', in the second edition. The main differences are the lack of a designers name (O. Spaniel) and the presence of maker marks (LA) on the type 1 compared to the presence of a designers name and no makers marks on the type 2.

Bill has posted some colour pictures of the type 1, including close-ups of the maker marks in #81 of this thread. That should provide the detail you are looking for.

Regards,
Rob

Hello David,

Firstly, how many varieties are there that are not listed in Laslo's book? I have the book and have run across several that do not seem to be described there. The one that comes to mind is the official French medal with a triangle mark. As this one seems fairly easy to find, why is it not described in the book? What other countries have versions that he missed?

There have been a number of similar discussion points raised about newer varieties than that listed in the Laslo volumes. Noting that Alex Laslo's 2nd edition was published in 1992 it stands to reason that there are going to be additional varieties, not identified at the time of publication, surfacing. Given the passage of 21 years since that book was released there are a number of newer varieties and sub-varieties that have been discussed, and in some cases, illustrated in the various threads on this forum topic. I would suggest that you review each country sub-thread and you may find the answers you are looking for.

Secondly, I've noticed there are some varieties that I virtually never see. How difficult is it to find, for instance, the non-official Belgians? I've seen the uniface Belgian plenty of times, but have never come across the types 1 or 2 unofficials. I also gather that the unofficial Italians are virtually impossible to find, particularly the ones with the different "Victory" varieties. Does anyone have a copy of these? How much do they typically sell for?

As has already been posted the unofficial Belgian types are becoming much harder to find, in good condition whereas the unofficial Italian models are well-nigh impossible to find.

The divergence between scarcity and value has often been discussed amongst all collectors. To para-phrase an earlier post on the 'WW1 Victory Medals General Discussion' sub-thread, which has relevance regarding what collectors will pay:

"There is two areas here that need to be understood; market values and collector values. I think a close look at sales on the various online auction houses, ebay sites, and other online medal dealers should give you a general guide as to the prices you could expect for each of the varieties. There is then what a specific collector will pay for the same item; and this may not always be consistent with the market value."

Regards,
Rob

Hello David,

Greetings all.

I currently live in Sarajevo, and something about being in this city has sparked a real interest for me in WWI. As part of my interest, I've taken up collecting the inter-allied victory medal. I have at least one from each country, except Siam and Brazil, and am aiming to eventually (probably many decades from now) have one of each variety, official and unofficial.

Welcome to the forum. I am sure that you will find much information of assistance amongst the threads here.

Good luck on your impending search to locate an example of each official and unofficial variety. I am sure that it will be an interesting journey.

Regards,
Rob

Hi Gents,

There's a Siam vic on eBay - asking price $1999 - item # /121225161003.

There are a lot of accompanying photos, and it looks OK to me - what do you think? (Not that I'm in a position to buy at that price!)

Bill

Hello Bill,

Despite the accumulation of residue amongst the base relief, possibly from cleaning, this is a good looking official piece. I am sure it could be cleaned up with some careful brushing to remove the residue buildup. A quick dip in an ultrasonic cleaner should remove all that buildup.

While the price could be considered high it is nonetheless a rare piece, as far as the entire interallied vic series is concerned. These original pieces do not appear that often and are, with the Brazil vic, most often missing from a vic collection.

Regards,

Rob

This one was posted one this site. I think Rob is the owner "or" poster of this item

a Happy U.S.A. Thanksgiving to all Jim

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Hello Jim,

Poster and Owner: Yes.

Regards,

Rob

Is it my imagination or are the CASADA MOEDA pieces in slightly higher relief?

Paul

Hello Paul,

I have both a type 1 and a type 2 and I never really took that much attention to any differences in the relief. While my collection is in long-term storage the next time I am in a position to review them, I shall take a closer look.

I do know, however, that the type 1 is much more rarely seen than the type 2.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Lambert - Yes, it's got those two pairs of 'bubbles' as before!

Bill

Hello Lambert,

It appears that the mystery of the earlier cuban vic (posts #128 & #136) has been solved.

Regards,

Rob

Hello everyone

Attention: New Victory medals and Claps (VIC U.S. , army and navy) for sale on Ebay, all seem to be copies made in sand molds included, copy of "copies" Vic Brazil and Siam, with also a false Vic Polish (copy .)

Are made in gold metal and rough.

Best Regards

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

They all have a small tab of velcro on the reverse with the country identifyer as well. This would suggest they have been produced for a board or some other display as a large group.

What is very interesting is the copy of the Polish fake. Seems very ironic that faked items are now being copied as if that gives them some form of legitimacy.

With the 100 year anniversary of the Great War approaching we might probably expect to see some more interest in the vic series as a result. At least new collectors have this resource available to assist them.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Gents,

Looking at the photos of the 3 Riemer medals together, this one looks to have a thicker ring of smaller radius. When the ball was uncracked the ring must have been a very tight fit - there are signs on the left side of the ball (viewed from the obverse) of burring which might be caused by the ring rubbing. Maybe it has imposed so much strain on the ball that it caused it to crack?

Bill

Hello Bill and GM1,

This seems the most plausible reason. If the suspension ball was actually sawn there would be marks and the ring is actually too large to fit through the resulting crack. This supports the tension cracking option.

An interesting item nonetheless.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Rob.

Could show pictures of the border? I did not know this Italian Repro.

Best Regards

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

The item has yet to arrive but I have a picture of the rim from another Italian repro to illustrate the mark. It is listed as the US repro type 2 in the Laslo reference (1992 edition).

Regards,

Rob

Hello Bill,

While most collectors know the Polish vic is a pure fantasy item it still doesn't stop them from selling. I have them mainly for educative purposes.

I am sure that new 'old' ones will appear on ebay in the future.

Regards,
Rob

Hello GM1,

You have some very nice Riemer examples.

A query on the example with the smallest ball suspender (on the left as viewed as the group). On close inspection it appears that the ball suspender has actually cracked where the solder is on the obverse. Is this the case or is it a trick of the lights?

Regards,
Rob

Hello Rob.

It's good to have him back.

Regards

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

My appearances will be both fleeting and irregular as work intrudes.

Regards,

Rob

To all,

There is a nice Greek miniature vic currently on ebay (auction numbers: 400598211038 and 360782825078). Despite the two listing it is the same item.

These miniatures do not appear that often.

Regards,
Rob

To all,

A recent acquisition. It is a 'MADE IN ITALY' reproduction type (as defined by Alex Laslo). It has this mark stamped on the rim at the base. In addition it has a reproduction NAVAL BATTERY bar. The background of the bar has a slightly raised pebbled surface.

The italian repro is not often seen and even moreso rarely with a Navy/USMC bar.

Regards,
Rob

To all,

I would agree that upon reviewing there is also the possibility that this example is actually an official strike. It certainly looks a nice strike but again without a look at the rim, we shall never know.

Regards,
Rob

Hello Bill,

Given the number of unofficial types and varieties it is not altogether unexpected that there would be a myriad of suspension devices and types. I am sure that there would have been all manner of minor variations in production dependant on the local Romanian manufacturer.

I have also seen examples were the barrel suspender looked more like a ring and/or a cylinder.

Regards,
Rob

Hi Gents,

Two copies of Laslo's book (I think 1st edition) on eBay item # 370917502719 and # 221308517952

Bill

Hello Bill,

Correct on both accounts. The first edition was published in 1986 with a total of 765 numbered copies. The second edition was published in 1992 in an unknown quantity and was un-numbered.

One of the major differences between edition one and two was the inclusion of the Battle Clasp matrix on page 94. Notwithstanding that the updated 1992 edition has all the latest information (at the time), including the type classifications.

Having the reference (2nd edition) is advantageous especially as there are so many references to it here on this forum. It also allows for collectors to update their copy as newer information comes to hand or emends older information.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Lambert,

An interesting piece indeed. On close-up it appears to be a cast copy. The 'C Charles' makers mark on the obverse appears clean but with no pictures of the rim, to check for the 'AC' and BRONZE marks, it will be difficult to be definitive either way.

Regards,
Rob

Hi there:

Below three Riemer-version Victory Medals. Note that each ball suspension is different. More pictures will follow tomorrow with better light. Any idea?

Best regards,

GM1

Hello GM1,

It is not unusual to see differences in finish and metal content with these Riemer types. You have three good examples with different ball suspenders. The larger ring-cylinder is seen less often than the usual ball suspender.

Regards,

Rob

To one and all,

Late to the party again...

To respond to some of the earlier comments. In 2009 I obtained the cuban group indicated in posts 1 & 2 of this thread. The group that arrived from the vendor was not entirely consistent with what the illustrations showed. I am sure that other collectors have had similar occurrences. This makes my original comments at that time redundant as well. Irrespective I have since obtained the original piece and have re-united it with the group.

The gilt example, as per the accompanying picture, is in the same format and design as the bronze example indicated by Lambert in post #71 and seen on the ebay auction. It is from my picture archives as I don't have access to the actual group at the moment. That would suggest that this is a particular design type probably produced by a local cuban manufacturer. It also has a slightly off-centre and squashed ball suspender.

Either way this new variety continues to show that there are always more varieties out there just waiting to be identified.

Regards,
Rob

To all,

The vendor indicated that the collection was put together by a US collector in the 1970's. This at least identifies the era of collection and gives us a snapshot as to those varieties available at the time.

Regards,

Rob

Good morning, Rob,

Using Laslo's numbering system, we truly do not know what his thoughts were as to the unofficial 3A. He left his book without an illustration and there is a very vague description of the 3A. Since his book was published, there have been at least several new Romanian medals found with the same suspension all having the "C" and not "G" as does the unofficial 3. What is your basis for a description of the unofficial type 3A?

Regards to all, Jim

Jim,

The following excerpt from Mr Laslo's volume (2nd edition) seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

"Type 3a - Reverse has the correct use of the letter 'G' except for Greece which reads 'CRECIA'. Other reverse die variations compared to the Unofficial Type 3."

The picture in post #158 meets all those criteria. I have also included a screenshot of the text from page 79 of Mr Laslo's book for others to reference.

Regards,

Rob