John R

Yes we did, it is still there. John

I agree Norm. If JapanX would explain his point, it would help a bit I think. John

I also think that the badges being discussed were made in Japan for the German crewmen. They could have been made either by a jeweler or in a shipyard. The Japanese shipyards could make anything in my opinion--heck, if they could make a gigantic battleship, they could make a badge.

I have lived in Korea and Japan and I warned my American friends never to ask for something, even as a joke. Your hosts will get it for you since you put them on the spot. I believe that if the Captain of a German ship, or the naval attache, asked if the badge could be copied, the Japanese would have moved mountains to fulfill the request, even if they did not particularly want to.

Since there would have been language difficulties, I do not think, unless a shipyard official spoke German or a common non-Japanese language, the German crew could wander down to a shop and get it done trading some German items for the finished badges. With the help of Japanese officials, no problem getting it done.

I have worked in several shipyards in my life--they are amazing places and it is incredible what a machinist can do in them. So I think the badge could have been made by a jeweler or in a shipyard shop without much effort--just the directive to get it done from the Japanese hosts.

Since the design looks Asian to me, I do not think it was made in one of the German ships' machine shop, even though those sailors were also quite ingenious to keep their vessels moving so far away from Germany. At the same time, the AC badge looks a bit crude (do not get me wrong, I really like the badge and wish I had one) also pointing me to the shipyard machinists over a skilled jeweler, but who knows? I am just advancing another idea.

Why the "sterling" stamp exists, I do not know nor do I think it is that important since the badge itself has provenance with the mark. It exists for some reason that made perfect sense then and little sense now.

I think the medal is another story created in Singapore by the Japanese Navy as some sort of commemorative gift--in no way was it an official Japanese award although I am somewhat surprised they did not give one of their campaign medals to these German crews. Asians like to give and receive gifts as part of a cultural sense of politeness. That is what I think the Singapore medal is and not much different than if the Germans had received a ceramic sake cup I think.

John

This is where I saw the rank in question. I do not own this example, it belongs to another collector I know. As you can see, it is dated 1937.

John

Thanks Gordon.

From the site of Weitze.

Reverse

I have been asked to post this here for opinions on this hollowback U-boat.

John

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5

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Craig asked me to post these images for him. He would like it mentioned that he had to go "low-res" due to file restrictions. The photos are not Craig's, but he can take additional ones after the 1st.

John

That is a nice grouping. Most of the post sinking Scharnhorst HSF badges that went to relatives appear to have been RSS types. So you have a very interesting grouping in that the sailor was alive when awarded this badge and the documents that went with it, vice the relatively (in years gone by) posthumous docs and award. Like you said, a very good price for the group.

John

I meant "vice the relatively common (in years gone by" above.

I agree Gordon, very interesting grouping from this famous warship and almost certain probability he was aboard during the Channel Dash. John

By the way, I talked to Roger yesterday. He is out of Torpedo Los. These reference books become very good investments in the long run. Now try to find a copy of Torpedo Los. The point is that when these books are gone, they are gone so you should buy them when you can.

John

That is a nice grouping. Most of the post sinking Scharnhorst HSF badges that went to relatives appear to have been RSS types. So you have a very interesting grouping in that the sailor was alive when awarded this badge and the documents that went with it, vice the relatively (in years gone by) posthumous docs and award. Like you said, a very good price for the group.

John

Thanks Justin. Appreciate it very much. John

Is this book in English also? Looks that way, not sure how it is layed out.

John

Thanks Gordon. I had seen the term heizer used in Imperial references, so this clears it up.

John

I can't find this in my rank lists:

"Überzähliger Stabs Heizer"

Anybody know what this rank was for and what type of personnel were assigned to this rank?

Thanks, John

It is the personal Stammrollnummer of the sailor. O-365. The O is for Ostsee (Batic).

All naval Stammrollnummer will have either an "N" for Nordsee or "O" for Ostsee before the numerals.

Upon further research, I think Gordon is right and it is the personal stammrollen number for a sailor. It seems only in the Heer, LW and SS did the unit have their own roster numbers in addition to the original enlistment number--actually they had several numbers assigned including cadre and unit numbers; the KM used the single stammrollen number. Best as I know anyway.

John

And I do believe it is Thor itself, upgraded for a more playful purpose. On the lake. John

With a lot of time on my hands and after looking at hundreds of photos, here is the exact spot today. The hotel is there and looks quite nice and updated, not expensive by any standards either. Might be a nice place to stay. Favorite non nature attraction is a pirate ship of all things.

I have done this all over Europe by the way, sort of a hobby--before and now shots.

John