Jef

I rather doubt he saw much front service : no Croix de Guerre, no front bars on the Commemorative Medal...

Hello Hendrik,

A relative of mine has the same document as Chris'document . Normally you should be able to see the veterans service during the war. Attached are some pics, he saw service from 3/10/16 untill the end of the war. Next post will shows his medals.

will be continued....

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Dear Jef

There are no marks in them, even in the first crosses made in 1832 some time you find the monogram with I in the middle, what is sure is that those with a II are made by Heremans, periode of Leopold II, at the periode of King Albert I we find some time back a I in the Monogram.

Hello Guy,

Thank you for the explanation. On this occasion i would like to congratulate you with your study about Militair Ereteken/ D?coration Militaire of 2004. A great reference book.

kind regards,

Jef

See here a beautifull Officers cross, from the time that orders where made by juwellers

Look at the "I" in the middle of the Royal monogram

Hello Guy,

Nice crosses you have there. When seeing your post i immediately compared my Leo orders.

In your message you stated: " ...from the time that orders where made by jewellers"

Does this mean a cross with a "I" in the middle of the Royal monogram has a makers mark from the juweller? I have two with a "I", but I wasn't able to find any mark.

Kind regards,

Jef

I didn't got it from a book I guess It's him, becouse he was the king then. He was the "Koning ridder" (king knight) and the soldier has a laurelwreath on his helmet and this is a sign of a winner and Albert was seen by all the winning countries as a great man.

Hello Oli4,

Thank you for answering , but I'm afraid I have to agree with Hendrik and Guy. It would be very logical if the bust of King Albert was on that medal. You are quite right, our king was respected by all our allies. I checked once more my Quinot book and the determinations of the King Albert medal, Political prisoners medal 14/18 .... Every time the author mentioned the pic of King Albert , but he didn't in the determination of the Commemorative medal 14/18.

With kind regards,

jef

no, not all the decorations have insignias on their ribbons and yes, it's king Albert.

Olivier

Hello Oli4,

I have read it before in the book of Alec Purves, and know I read it again. Is this really King Albert?

My book of Henri Quinot says.....la t?te d'un soldat casqu?... translated is this " a head with a helmet"

In what book did you found this? I'm very curious.

kind regards,

Jef

Hello Jef,

They are meant for a miniature WWI Commemorative Medal.

The bars are painted black (as opposed to the black enameled posthumous award bar)

Excellent !

Cheers,

Hendrik

Thank you Hendrik, your information is very helpful.

Jef

Hello Jef,

Sorry to be a spoilsport but ...

Picture 1 :

- 1st medal : that is a bar for the Service Star (Congo colony) and the wound cross is of the WW2 type as used on the WW2 Commemorative Medal etc.

- 3rd medal : do I spot 2 gold bars there ? Maximum is 1 gold and 3 silver ones ...

- 4th medal : those are miniature bars for the WW2 POW medal ...

Picture 2 :

- 1st medal : another Service Star bar I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Hendrik

Hello Hendrik,

Still have a question about those would-be POW miniature bars in the 4th medal. In the attachement you see on the left similar bars as on the 4th medal (the only difference is, the gold one is separate from the 3 silverones). One gold and three silver bars in one piece.

On the right I scanned a service ribbon of the POW medal with five bronze bars. In a book I found every bar means one year of POW.

Literature told me the bars of a Belgian WWII POW medal must be bronze. The tiny bars on the left are gilt and silver ( even don't have the same size!) If those left bars are no POW bars, for what medal are they ment?

Second question: a black bar for the POW's, and a silver bar for a front stripe. In many cases the silver bar might be oxidated and looks black. How can you see the difference between a black and an oxidated silver bar.

By the way, I see I haven't answered your question about the 1st medal in the second pic. Sorry. But it's definitly black enamel.

With kind regards,

Jef

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This is the reverse of this medal. Li?ge is a town in the french speaking part of Belgium.

Jef

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Hello Robert,

It seems Belgium has insignia with the same purpose. Attached you find a Belgian medal of 1932.It wears the same abreviations NLD. I guess it means NOTRE DAME de LOURDES. Translated is this OUR LADY of LOURDES. I think it was worn by groups of pelgrims which visited Lourdes. Maybe as an ID or a souvenir? I remember my mother told me she went to Lourdes in 1948, and she has a pale bleu cross pin as an ID. I don't know if the pin wears the same abreviations. I have to look for it...

best regards,

Jef[attachmentid=50783]

Hendrik was probably in a hurry or wasn't awake that morning

The first victory medal in picture two is correct! The black enamaled bar was created for the law of 17 march 1920 wich defined that mothers of deceased soldiers or civilian officials who where in service could wear their decorations. On 21 april 1920 there was a supplement ( Koninklijk Besluit ) that discribed the black bar for the deceased children.

Olivier

Hello Oliver,

Actually I was thinking in the same direction about that first commemoration medal. But I cannot find it back in my files. So far, this thread has learned me a lot. How comes? I have an old book of Henry Quinot...I don't have the Born? book. But, they all are written in French. I don't know a good medal reference book (of Belgian medals) which is written in Dutch, my language. Medec and Globe are trying to change this, so I'm looking forward to their new dossier. I hope in the future they will make one of the Commemoration medal in all its shapes. Keep up the good work.

Kind regards,

Jef

Hello Jef,

Sorry to be a spoilsport but ...

Picture 1 :

- 1st medal : that is a bar for the Service Star (Congo colony) and the wound cross is of the WW2 type as used on the WW2 Commemorative Medal etc.

- 3rd medal : do I spot 2 gold bars there ? Maximum is 1 gold and 3 silver ones ...

- 4th medal : those are miniature bars for the WW2 POW medal ...

Picture 2 :

- 1st medal : another Service Star bar I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Hendrik

Hello Hendrik,

Thank you for correcting me. I learn every day.

By the way, I have checked the back of that third medal: one gold and three silver ones.

kind regards

Jef

Very nice ones guys

Sooo ... unless my eyes deceive me or I can't read anymore , the one I posted to start this thread off .. the two bars signifiy this medal belonged to someone who served at least 1 year 6 months frontline service?

Hello Darrel,

If the two bars are silver one's, I would say Yes. The maximum of front stripes is eight.

Jef

And some other ribbon insignia. The medal on the extreem right, with the large crown is not official and wrong, as far as i'm concerned. But, I happened to know the owner of the medal, a friend of my grandfather, a volunteer of october 1918. With respect to him, I treasure this one.

yours,

Jef

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Hello,

Here are some commemoration medals in my collection. See the different way of front stripes insignia. Or am I wrong , Hendrik?

Jef[attachmentid=50156

Reverse:it's hard to see on this scan, but at the back of the service ribbon, I can read BC B- SG DG

Stijn, Hendrik or Guy, do you know what this means?

With kind regards,

Jef

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Hello Stijn,

As requested an IJzer medal/cross with a service ribbon in my collection.

Jef

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It's a Sutherland mountain cat, you should see those buggers jump

I've had a look through Churchill and to be honest you'd have difficulty dating these badges from the book. It appears to support my original theory of the age, but not quite, the upright tail was used later, see mine below. I think that this was produced in the 30s or 40s due to the lugs on the reverse and it has a tail.

I think this is the best collar badge produced, it is so rich in symbolism. Myrtle, broom, cat and boar are representative of so many clans in such a lovely badge. I do admit to a little bias as this was the regiment my father served with in WW2.

That's right, Jim. You can find the origins of that wild cat in the crest of the arms of the Dukes of Sutherland. I believe the same cat is in the WW I badge of the 5th Bn. Seaforth Highlanders.

Kind regards,

Jef

Hi,

Some really nice crosses are appearing here - great!

Jef, your example uses 4 bent prongs for attachment, correct? Not common, but if you have a look at the following thread you'll find his brother - same attachment method, same/very similar hinge and apparently the same Fleurs-de-lis;

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=165794

I forgot to mention it, my pinback on the lower right uses a 2 bent prong attachment method - hard to make out due to the pin and the vaulting making the reverse scan a bit blurry.

Bob, I'm sure the vast majority of these were unmarked. I'm positive I've seen a marked Meybauer example though.

Ralph, pristine pinback and a killer mini

Regards

Mike

Hello Mike,

Thank you for the info. I have this award since 15 years in my collection. Do you have any idea of it's value?

kind regards from Flanders,

Jef

And the reverse, sorry for the hazy pic.

Mike, it seems the Fleur de Lys cross had another attachment to the white metal greek cross. What do you think about this?

Jef

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Hello Mike,

Here is anotherone,

Jef

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Rick, Tom, Stogieman, thank you for your help.

Jef

hello,

In my collection I have a ribbon bar with another type of crossed swords. Never saw this before on the Hindenburgkreuz ribbon. It looks like Belgian crossed sabres. Is this rubbish?

Jef

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Jef,in the box containing the medals sent to his next of kin there should have been a condolence slip with his name date of death and details of medals issued.Both the box and slip should be kept as provenance as to what they are and to whom they were awarded.

John

Thank you John, I will ask the family.

Jef

An error has occurred with this issue as the Air Crew Europe Star cannot be worn with the France and Germany Star a clasp should have been issued to be attached to the Air Crew Europe Star ribbon.

I 'm a little surprised at these medals(were they purchased off the open market?)as the ACE is a typical late issue the others are first issue.

John

Hello John,

I'm afraid, I don't know what you mean by " were they purchased off the open market?" The medals were sent last year by the Medal Department to the family Nicolson. And I can't believe those people would give me wrong info.

regards,

jef

Thank you Mr. Chairman for your message.

To illustrate your sentence:"....They will be given as mementos to the next of kin...." I can add a pic. While researching the carreer of W/O John Devlin's crewmate, F/Sgt Cecil Nicolson, the bomb aimer of Lancaster JB 455 (crashed 16 June1944) we understand that his family never received his medals. So, last year, the relatives wrote to the Medal Department. After inquiring Medal Dept. decided to issue the 39/45 Star, France&Germany Star, Air Crew Europe Star and the 39/45 War Medal. Finaly, after 61 years the family Nicolson received Cecil's medals. This happened last Christmas. A present to be proud of!

Kind regards,

jef

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