Great Dane

Thank you both for this enlightening information. I learned something new.

Not expanding into tipstaff collecting - just saw these at a local online auction while at the same time reading this thread. Made me curious

P.S: I can confirm that the tipstaff on the right is missing the top cross.

/Michael

I'm completely clueless when it comes to tipstaves, so just out of curiosity: Are these real tipstaves or something made by IKEA:

(sorry for diverging a little from the Bow Street subject)

Danish participant would be Johan Frederik (Fritz) Hegermann-Lindencrone. Note the 'H'...

/Michael

They are quite common.

Price in Denmark (biggest market I would think) would be US$50-75 in my opinion.

/Michael

Looks very Russian. Reverse resembles the medal for the Persian war.

Whether it is genuine or a fantasy piece, I can't say.

/Michael

Hmm... could the first one be the Order of the Star of Ethiopia?

/Michael

Could the last one be the Romanian Order of the Star (military grade in peacetime)?

/Michael

Are the insignias returned upon the death of the recipient? If so, the same number is used for several persons.

/Michael

Apologies for maybe pointing out the obvious... something Swedish judging from the "Petterson, Stockholm" stamp?

Ahh... yes, of course...

They DO look quite homemade... 

/Michael

Not sure I understand what your question is?

This is the military division of the Order of the Crown (first type).

/Michael

I know the gentleman who processed my request. He fully understood my question and I'm 100% convinced I wasn't just 'brushed off'.

/Michael

I can only say that although the evidence seems overwhelming, I myself have been fooled before...

Take a look at these two Dannebrog crosses - one belongs to the Danish Chapter of the Orders, the other was offered for sale at Künker in 2015.

At the time of the auction I asked the Chapter if their specimen was still in their possession and the answer was yes...

So apparently two different crosses despite the similarities... 

Amazing!

Thanks for showing

/Michael

And glad to hear you can't create an old (non-enamel) version by mutilating a new enameled version.

Can a fake also be made from the 'new design' with the enamel removed or would they differ in more ways than just the enamel?

/Michael

My first thought was that - since there was no Dannebrog on the bar - he was not listed in those books. I did double check however, because I have seen people wear a Dannebrog Commander (full size) around the neck and their remaining foreign decorations as miniatures.

But no luck. There was 1 hit, but he was awarded a lot of other decorations (incl. Danish ones) that would definitely be found on his miniature bar.

However, all hope is not lost...

There IS another source of Danes with decorations - the "Kraks Blaa Bog" (an annual Who is Who of Danes). People listed in those books don't have to be Dannebrog recipients (although most of them are), just need to be found 'worthy' of being listed.
Unfortunately it does not always list which classes of the orders are awarded.

Now, my program also searches a single volume of this book, the 1922 edition.

There was a single hit!

This guy was awarded the 3 decorations shown and nothing else:

Alexander Svedstrup (1864-1930). Writer.

Now, this is not a 100% guarantee that this is your guy. I have no way of checking which classes he received of those orders and there could in theory be other recipients.

/Michael

P.S: The Thai Order of the Crown is the pre-1948 type, so it fits the bill...

Hi Andreas,

Well, kind of...

There are state and court calendars which list awards to Danish recipients, but ONLY if they were awarded a class of the Order of Dannebrog (that was the criteria for being listed in the calendar).

Same goes for those volumes that compiled lists and small biographies of Dannebrog recipients, that appeared in 1903 (amended in 1906/08), 1950, 1954, 1960 and 1970. The one published in 1929 only had the short bios, not a list of awards.

If you PM me the composition of awards, I have a little Excel program that can look it up in those volumes (no, it is not a standalone program, it just references page nos. in those volumes) and can try to make a search. The more unique the composition, the more likely a hit, of course...

/Michael

Great reference, thanks!

Turkish orders/medals are unknown territory for me, so great to have a reference chart.

/Michael

Hi Kvart,

According to Norges Statskalender 1966, Jorstad was appointed Commander of St. Olav in 1952.

/Michael

Yes Egorka, Andreas is right. This is the list of "Fortjenstmedaljen" ("Medal of Merit").

The "Royal Medal of Recompense" ("Belønningsmedaljen") were never listed and not only that - it will not appear in the list of abbreviations appended after a name.

Andreas, I believe you're on the right track. I was a bit thrown off by the alleged link to the Duke of Cumberland.

/Michael

Hi Kvart,

According to C. P, Mulder's "Dutch Awards Conferred on Scandinavians (1892-1995)" there are 3 Norwegians with both Dutch Grand Crosses:

- Arne Vincent Bommen, chief civilian cabinet of H. M.
- Lars Jacob Hvinden Jorstad, envoy
- O. J. L. Kildal, ambassador

/Michael

Actually, when I first looked at the photo in post #1 it looked like silver gilt to me, but I blamed it on the lighting, because it definitely shouldn't be.

As Egorka says, it was struck in 8 and 23 (not 24) karat solid gold.

I can verify from personal experience that both types look the same to the naked eye (same deep yellow golden color). The only difference is the weight, with the 8K version weighing about half of the 23K version.

The ONLY specimens of this medal in silver gilt are the copies. If the medal on the bar is silver gilt, we can't rule out that someone swapped it with a copy at some point in its life.

This is the 23K version with crown (and as I mentioned, the 8K version looks the same):

I think you're right that later they had more documentation (don't know exactly from when), so yes, I agree - it should have become part of the Statskalender at that point.

/Michael

These are the ones I can find that received the Gold medal in the period and with a direct mentioning of belonging to the court of the Duke of Cumberland:

- Riekenberg

- Augermann

Any of those names on your list?

/Michael

OK, I', not sure why my edit of my last post merged it with my previous post, but anyway...

Of course I do, but since the abolishment of absolutism, handing out court medals without consent from the government was one of the few royal prerogatives. Hence no official listing

/Michael

In his book "En allerhøjeste Paaskønnelse", Lars Stevnsborg lists recipients 1865-1912. I believe the list was created by meticulously going through the official sources (royal decrees etc.) as no official list exist. So there may still be small inaccuracies in his list.

Like most court medals this medal was often part of the King's 'luggage' and to be handed out at his discretion to whomever he felt deserved it. So many times the award was not documented.

If you send me the list of potential German recipients, I can cross-check. That's easier for me than going through the list which is ordered chronologically.

/Michael