Great Dane

Hi North Denmark,

Yes, your Dannebrog is not an original made by Michelsen, but I definitely wouldn't call it a "China copy".

As you may know some recipients had copies (as in replacement copies etc.) made privately. This type of yours is often referred to as "French style" and is probably gilt silver.

It's one of the better replacement copies - some copies have put the "W" on the front instead of the "C5"...

VERY nice bar

/Michael

I'll have to pass on that one...

/Michael

The cross is made from silver and gilt silver (the edge) with a gold center medallion.

The reverse has the engravings of the recipient's name and rank and the time and place for the act.

The decoration does not have to be returned after the recipient's death.

/Michael

John,

I think you can still find this ribbon from time to time on the french eBay.

Worth a try.

/Michael

North Denmark,

You can't swap the two Dannebrog in their current versions. It was only allowed to place the Silver Cross before the Knight Cross if the Silver Cross was awarded first, which is impossible with these two versions.

This type of bar was - in my experience - used around the turn of the century, so the Dannebrog would normally be Frederik VII, Christian IX or Frederik VIII versions.

/Michael

Nice minis guys

North Denmark, are you sure noone fiddled with that second miniature bar (with the 2 Danish Dannebrog and the Dutch Oranje-Nassau)?

The Dannebrog Knight cross was awarded during Frederik VIII (1906-12) and the Dannebrog Silver Cross was awarded during Frederik IX (1947-72). That's a best case span of 35 years...

Of course it's physically possible, but quite unlikely since the Silver Cross was normally awarded as a "½ up" to a Knight who wasn't yet ready for a Commander, and normally done during the normal path of his career.

Maybe someone put the Silver Cross on as a placeholder, waiting for a Frederik VIII or Christian X version? The style of the bar suggests that the Frederik VIII Knight Cross is the original one for the bar.

But nice bars nonetheless

P.S:

I tried to look through my sources for a matching name for that lower bar in the glass frame, but no luck...

/Michael

Lilo,

As I understand it, the 3rd class was normally awarded in bronze but during the war in zinc or "war metal" ("Kriegsmetall") due to lack of bronze.

/Michael

From the press release:

SGT Mathiesen was recently awarded the new Danish Cross of Valor for actions he took on 19 February 2010. In the battle that day, his unit, ISAF team 9, took enemy fire, incapacitating a fellow Soldier. SGT Mathiesen immediately returned fire, suppressing 4 to 5 enemy positions while firing 7 magazines of ammunition.

Citation: For actions on the 19th February 2010, during fighting, unhesitatingly and while clearly recognizing the risk of his own life and limb and for having provided cover for a wounded comrade by standing between him and the enemy. He maintained this very vulnerable position, and fired on the enemy so that additional help could arrive.

That could definitely be the case. The swedish red cross medal seems more and more likely.

/Michael

You have convincing arguments

/Michael

Lilo,

Your theory sounds plausible. I would rule out the zeal medal ("Nit och Redlighet i Rikets Tjänst") as it was used as a Long Service medals for civil servants.

But do we know if the medal was awarded to him or to his wife?

/Michael

Lilo,

Problem with many swedish medals are, that the obverse looks identical (apart from the different kings). The medal shown could be for zeal, life saving, art & science, red cross etc. It is necessary to see the reverse to find out.

The ribbon will depend on which medal it turns out to be. Most likely it's dark blue with thin yellow edges, but we can't be sure.

/Michael

Thanks galitzine ,

Is it possible to get a photo of the reverse of the swedish medal (or just a description of the text on the reverse)?

Thanks,

Michael

Great photos!

Lilo, for your records, he was awarded the Danish Dannebrog (Commander 1. class) on the 29. July 1902.

I would be very interested to have a close-up of the lower 3 round medals (under the red cross badge) in the photo with all the medals/orders.

I am curious to find out which swedish medal (the one with the special suspension) he or his wife was awarded.

/Michael

Great write-up Ulsterman,

A small correction:

His Order of Dannebrog is not Knight but Silver Merit Cross awarded in 1878 (same year he received the danish Order of the Elephant).

The Golden Wedding decoration was awarded in gold to royals, but many of them had spare ones made from gilt silver (to use in other medal bar combinations)

/Michael

A note about this cross:

On this official photo it looks black, but it's really 'chrome-colored' (if you know what i mean...)

/Michael

I have posted this before, but it seems to fit the thread nicely

Recipient is unknown, apart from "railroad engineer, working in Persia"...

/Michael

PM sent.

Yes, the book is very hard to find.

And it is small (50 or so pages) with terrible pictures in black and white. Text is in english with a danish resumé.

He mentions several times that due to the lack of sources, a lot of info is uncertain (apparently the persians didn't really document statutes or other essential information or it was lost at some point).

...

Hmm... would like to show the page, but my image uploads seem to be scaled to max 205 x 300 pix, which makes a page quite unreadable...

/Michael

Maybe the truth is even more complex:

According to C. P. Mulder's "Persian Orders 1808-1925", the standing lion holding a sabre is for the military division, while the lion lying down is for the civil division, and then he adds "Foreigners always receive the civil decoration" (and he continues to explain that even the grading system was different for persians and foreigners).

/Michael

The ones I have seen were all mounted like the one in post #1 but on a ribbon like the one in post #5.

There was one on eBay recently. Engraved on the back. Looked original.

/Michael

Hi Jakob,

A warm welcome to you

And if this signals a renewed interest in medals and ordens by the museum, then thumbs up from me!

If I can help in any way, just ask.

/Michael

Hi Bill,

Regarding bargaining:

It never hurts to be polite (it will increase your chance of success). I always ask like "What would you say to £xx?" instead of "This isn't worth more than £xx!"... No need to offend the seller from the start...

Regarding genuine vs. copies:

Sadly, it seems to me that professional sellers think (and maybe rightly so...?) that it's easier to sell copies as being genuine at a fair compared to selling it from a shop or a webshop. Watch out and know your subject.

Good luck

/Michael

I saw one as late as earlier today. It was a 5th class cross with a 4-digit number (I think it was 1200-something - can't really remember exactly).

It was awarded to a danish court official (and worn from its danish-style ribbon).

The order and the award document - together with the rest of his orders/papers - was auctioned off as one big lot a couple of years ago.

/Michael

Sal,

as far as I know Vicorian Orders issued to foreigners were and are still unnumbered. I have a KCVO set awarded to a foreigner that is unnumbered.

Pieter

Not so sure about that... I have seen several - verified - Victorian Orders to foreigners that were numbered.

By 'verified' I mean there is no doubt the order in question was the one that foreigner received.

/Michael