Odin Mk 3

I would like to point out that it is very unusual for find these medals re-named. Historically they were not that expensive to buy and there appeared to be no little interest in re-naming them in order to add them to groups of other medals etc. The Met had been issued with a few unnamed medals which were held as spares, so any serving officer losing his medal could easily get a replacement from the Police. I have handled hundreds of these medals over the last twenty years and have only ever encountered a couple of re-named medals. So if this turns out to be the case for this example then you have been extremely unlucky.

No Discharge Register entry or service sheet for him I'm afraid. He does appear in the Attestation Register which gives his full name as Edgar Peter Postle. The 1911 Census gives this same named individual who seems around the right age: name: Edgar Peter Postle event type: Census 1911 gender: Male age: 48 birthplace: Blofield, Norfolk registration district: Henstead sub-district: Humbleyard parish: Newton Flotman county: Norfolk Looks like he came from Norfolk and went back there after leaving the Police

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I suspect this medal has been re-named. I have searched through all the Discharge Register indexes from 1897 to about 1910 and failed to find anyone called Postle or something similar. These indexes are rather basic and are semi alphabetical but all the As, Bs Cs etc are listed in the order the men left; they also give the page number for their respective entry in the Register. Result nothing at all - no officer called E Postle left the Met in this period (which is when you would expected him to have done, based on him earning this medal and clasp). I then went through some extracts I have from the old Police Order database and also couldn't find this man. This was beginning to make me suspicious that he had left earlier than 1889 when the Discharge Registers start, which means he might not be entiitled to the 1897 bar. In desperation I went back to my early warrants list which I compiled when I started work on the book. It also contains officers who received no medals at all. Eureka I found him. Warrant No 71205 Edgar Postle joined the Met 11/02/1887 as a PC in Y Div (Highgate) and resigned 30/05/1887 as a PC in N Div (Islington). As the Jubilee procession was held on 21st June 1887 he had already left the Met Police three weeks before that event and therefore was not entitled to the medal at all. Which brings me to the conclusion that he might have felt he should have received one but didn't, so he has self bestowed someone elses on himself (albeit one with the 1897 bar added as well). A rough idea of the naming style is given below. It would be good if you could post a photo of the edge for comparison purposes. Sorry it's not better news for you.

In response to the above requests the book is: The Metropolitan Police, The Men and their Medals compiled by JHF Kemp I had it privately printed so copies are only available directly from myself The current cost to GMIC members is £25 + P&P (which is now an extra £7.50 as it is quite heavy) It covers 1887 -1911 Jubilee and Coronation Medals to Met Offciers who joined the force after 1879. For more details see http://jhfk.com/pdf/book.pdf If members are interested then please send me a personal message

Nice picture of your great grandfather For your gg grandfather I have found two Stubbs who were in Thames Division around the correct timeframe: John Stubbs who finished as a Ch Insp in Thames but would have been only 16 when he joined in 1867 if he is the man, which is highly unlikely Joseph Stubbs who finished as an Insp in Thames and did actually join in 1871 Their details are: John Stubbs - Warrant No 49099 joined 20/12/1867 and retired 05/12/1898 as a Ch Insp in Thames Div Joseph Stubbs - Warrant No 55018 joined 26/12/1871 and retired 12/12/1897 as an Insp in Thames Div Both would be entitled to the 1887 Medal with 1897 bar and neither returned as a pensioner for the 1902 or 1911 Coronations I have just checked another resource which shows Joseph Stubbs retired as an Insp(3) - now this is effectively a Police Sergeant. Originally Thames Div did not have PSs but Insp(3)s. It was to do with their ability to stop and search for customs etc and it was felt that the title PS did not carry sufficient weight, so they were classed as Insp 3rd grade. This practice stopped in around 1902 when Thames adopted the rank of PS in line with other parts of the Met

Neil I suggest it would be best if you were to send me a Personal Message as I feel it might be considered inappropriate if I were to advertise my own book on this Forum.

I note your interest Neil in the H and J Div medals. I would still urge Forum Members to show some caution when buying these medals, be careful of paying over inflated prices for them as you may well be dissappointed when you research them further. As an example, I have an 1887 Jubilee Medal (no bar) to PC J Devonald H Div. I bought it some years ago and fortunately it was around the same the price as a standard Met Police 1887 Jubilee Medal. Just as well as PC John Devonald (Warrant Number 52620) died 4th Feb 1888 which is before anything happened. I am also aware of one collector who bought an expensive 1897 Jubilee Medal for H Div and that man wasn't even in the Met Police at the right time.

Further to a recent post here is a list of all the Met Divisions with the 1910 designations and earlier Divisional names: CO Commissioner’s Office (Scotland Yard) A Whitehall B Chelsea (originally Westminster) C St. James’s D Marylebone (originally St Marylebone) E Holborn F Paddington G Finsbury H Whitechapel J Hackney (originally Bethnal Green) K Bow L Lambeth M Southwark N Islington P Camberwell R Greenwich S Hampstead T Hammersmith (originally Kensington) V Wandsworth W Clapham X Kilburn (originally Paddington) Y Highgate TA Thames 1st Woolwich (Dockyard and Arsenal) 2nd Portsmouth (Dockyard) 3rd Devonport (Dockyard) 4th Chatham (Dockyard & Sheerness Dkyd) 5th Pembroke (Dockyard) There are also the following which were created later: 6th Rosyth (Dockyard) created 1914 Z Croydon created 1921 1887 medals for Thames show TA Div but later issues show Thames in full.

George Mardell joined the Met 13/12/1886 as a PC in H Div. His Warrant Number was 72219. He was pensioned 18/02/1904 and was then serving as a PC in R Div (Greenwich). That's all I have on him I've afraid. Unfortunately all these men joined too early to have service sheets in the National Archives which start at Warrant Number 74201 but most will have pension papers. Again that will require a trip to the NA to access them as, unlike the Service Sheets, they are not on-line

A number of Divisons have been mentioned in this post Here are the areas for those mentioned above, with the 1900s designations given and any earlier titles shown in brackets: B = Chelsea (originally called Westminster) E = Holborn H = Whitechapel J = Hackney (originally called Bethnal Green) K = Bow N = Islington T = Hammersmith (originally called Kensington) W = Clapham X = Kilburn (originally called Paddington) Y = Highgate

52726 Isaac James Godding originally joined the Met 16/05/1870 as a PC in N Div and left 17/06/1895 (pensioned). He was then a PC serving in J Div. He re-joined just for a short time as a pensioner for the 1902 Coronation with the new number 829 (13/06/02) and served again with J Div So his full entitlement would be an 1887 (no bar) and a 1902 Coronation 59134 Frank Bragg originally joined the Met 12/07/1875 as a PC in X Div and left 16/07/1900 (pensioned). He was then a Sub Divisional Inspector serving in B Div He re-joined for a short time as a pensioner for the 1902 Coronation with the new number 1718 (19/06/02) and served as an SDI in T Div Full entitlement is an 1887 Jubilee and bar 1897 and a 1902 Coronation Medal A Sub Divisional Inspector was more senior than an Inspector 62184 George Charles Westcott joined the Met 28/01/1878 as a PC in E Div and left 02/02/1903 (pensioned). He was then a PS serving in W Div Full entitlement would be the group you have 70529 - full name is Oliver William Freemantle 71300 - full name is John Charles Birch 71162 - full name is Robert Stephen Pert

Benjamin Newton was Warrant Number 96502 He joined as a PC 11/01/1909 in V Division (Wandsworth) He retired as a PS 15/01/1934 in P Division (Camberwell) The 1911 Coronation Medal appears to be his sole entitlement as a Met Officer I can tell you that when he joined his Collar Number was 919V and he reamined a PC in V Div until 02/03/1918 (his Collar Number by then had changed to 1220V) when he was promoted to PS and transferred to P Div (with the Collar Number 79P) When he retired from P Div his number was 23P - so it appears that he spent the whole of his career in these two divisions (V & P) Unfortunately I can't tell you which stations he served at, just the divisions. I assume you have his service sheets from the NAs (two pages) - if not I can add them here

N Division was Islington (N London) - now the Met Police are based around the London Boroughs - Islington still is one of the Boroughs. Where the new titles align with old Divisions these are given below in brackets - most of those shown are the 1910 designations except Z Div which was formed in 1921. Barking and Dagenham Barnet Bexley Brent Bromley Camden Croydon (Z Div) Ealing Enfield Greenwich (R Div) Hackney (J Div) Hammersmith and Fulham (T Div) Haringey Harrow Havering Hillingdon Hounslow Islington (N Div) Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (B Div) Kingston upon Thames Lambeth (L Div) Lewisham Merton Newham Redbridge Richmond upon Thames Southwark (M Div) Sutton Tower Hamlets Waltham Forest Wandsworth (V Div) City of Westminster

Unfortunately as the 1911 Medals don't show the man's division it is sometimes difficult to identify the exact individual. For PC G Harvey there are two possible recipients. The men are Warrant Number 73547 George Harvey who joined 2/4/1888 as a PC in G Div (Finsbury) and left 4/12/1912 as a PC in 2nd Div (Portsmouth Dockyard) - he actually died whilst in the police service. His full entitlement is 1897 Jubilee, 1902 Coronation and 1911 Coronation - all earned at 2nd Div. Warrant Number 74538 George Harvey who joined 10/6/1889 as a PC in D Div (Marylebone) and was pensioned as a PC in D Div 15/6/1914 - 25 years service. His full entitlement is 1897 Jubilee, 1902 Coronation and 1911 Coronation - all earned in D Div. I have found the service sheet for this man, his full name was George Newbury York Harvey born 18 July 1865 and was a labourer living in Gosport when he joined the Met.

You're welcome Note I have started another thread on Met Police Records: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/54100-metropolitan-police-service-records-mepo-4/ This gives information on where the records are (like those pages shown above). You can download them straight from the National Archives, Free of Charge, but if anyone wants the sheets for the odd Met Officer then I can provide them as I have the whole lot stored on my computer (Warrant Numbers 74201 - 97500).

I think the link is more likely to be to the Met Police than the City of London force, which was relatively small compared to the Met . I have looked at the information I have on the 1897 Jubilee Medal for Police Ambulance Service. There were issued to the following: Hospital Association Ambulance Service: 1 Hon Sec, 5 Sisters, 49 Commissionaires (mostly Ptes), 16 Divisonal Surgeons, 7 Medical Officers, 1 Volunteer Surgeon. I assume these Divisonal Surgeons acting like Police Surgeons. The awards for 1902 appear to cover wider groups including men serving with Volunteer Forces (the forerunners to the Territorial Army). Their equivalents in 1897 appear to have received the SJAB issue of the medal and not the PAS issue.

I have a few names for the 1897 and 1902 Medals to the PAS (but not a complete roll). Unfortunately I have nothing for the 1911 Medal. For the earlier medals some of the PAS issue went to men who were serving in the London Volunteer Companies of the RAMC. This was possibly also the case for the 1911 Medal. The numbers issued for the 1911 Medal are not shown in Medal Year Book - just a combined list with the SJAB, St Andrew Amb Assn and Police Ambulance Service. However I have some papers from the Receiver's Office of the Met Police which show the engraving costs and therefore givesthe number of medals engraved (so identifying how many were issued) St John Ambulance Brigade 2755 - 28.06.12 St Andrew Ambulance Association 310 - 13.06.12 Police Ambulance Service 130 - 13.06.12 The dates are the final dates of issue for these medals (approx 1 year after the event). Incidentally the engraving of all 1911 Police Issue Medals (inc Fire Brigade and City of London Police) was managed by the Receiver's Office. The medals cost 5d each (2p) for the engraving and were issued with 9 inches of ribbon (@ 1s 3d per yard (6p).

Warrant No 74201 (G Allan) joined 28th Jan 1889 Warrant No 97500 (G McQueen) joined 15th Nov 1909 So they cover nearly 21 years and some 23,300 officers, many of whom received Jubilee and Coronation Medals (Police Issue) Unfortuantely I don't think they had these sheets before Warrant No 74201. No doubt in a few years time they will release more sheets for later warrant numbers but of these under 2000 will be relevant to the 1911 Coronation Medal.

Having just answered a query on another thread, I thought members might like to know that the Service Sheets for Met Officers in the range of Warrant Numbers 74201 to 97500 are available at the UK National Archives and can be downloaded (Free of Charge). They don't contain a lot of information but do give the outline of the officers' service careers plus some basic information (dob, previous occupation etc) when they joined the force. I have tabulated which files the information is in against the warrant numbers: 74201 - 74400 MEPO 4/361 | 74401 - 74600 MEPO 4/362 | 74601 - 74800 MEPO 4/363 | 74801 - 75000 MEPO 4/364 | 75001 - 75200 MEPO 4/365 | 75201 - 75400 MEPO 4/366 | 75401 - 75600 MEPO 4/367 | 75601 - 75800 MEPO 4/368 | 75801 - 76000 MEPO 4/369 | 76001 - 76200 MEPO 4/370 | 76201 - 76400 MEPO 4/371 | 76401 - 76600 MEPO 4/372 | 76601 - 76800 MEPO 4/373 | 76801 - 77000 MEPO 4/374 | 77001 - 77200 MEPO 4/375 | 77201 - 77400 MEPO 4/376 | 77401 - 77600 MEPO 4/377 | 77601 - 77800 MEPO 4/378 | 77801 - 78000 MEPO 4/379 | 78001 - 78200 MEPO 4/380 | 78201 - 78400 MEPO 4/381 | 78401 - 78600 MEPO 4/382 | 78601 - 78800 MEPO 4/383 | 78801 - 79000 MEPO 4/384 | 79001 - 79200 MEPO 4/385 | 79201 - 79400 MEPO 4/386 | 79401 - 79600 MEPO 4/387 | 79601 - 79800 MEPO 4/388 | 79801 - 80000 MEPO 4/389 | 80001 - 80200 MEPO 4/390 | 80201 - 80400 MEPO 4/391 | 80401 - 80600 MEPO 4/392 | 80601 - 80800 MEPO 4/393 | 80801 - 81000 MEPO 4/394 | 81001 - 81200 MEPO 4/395 | 81201 - 81400 MEPO 4/396 | 81401 - 81600 MEPO 4/397 | 81601 - 81800 MEPO 4/398 | 81801 - 82000 MEPO 4/399 | 82001 - 82200 MEPO 4/400 | 82201 - 82400 MEPO 4/401 | 82401 - 82600 MEPO 4/402 | 82601 - 82800 MEPO 4/403 | 82801 - 83000 MEPO 4/404 | 83001 - 83200 MEPO 4/405 | 83201 - 83400 MEPO 4/406 | 83401 - 83600 MEPO 4/407 | 83601 - 83800 MEPO 4/408 | 83801 - 84000 MEPO 4/409 | 84001 - 84200 MEPO 4/410 | 84201 - 84400 MEPO 4/411 | 84401 - 84600 MEPO 4/412 | 84601 - 84800 MEPO 4/413 | 84801 - 85000 MEPO 4/414 | 85001 - 85200 MEPO 4/415 | 85201 - 85400 MEPO 4/416 | 85401 - 85600 MEPO 4/417 | 85601 - 85800 MEPO 4/418 | 85801 - 86000 MEPO 4/419 | 86001 - 86200 MEPO 4/420 | 86201 - 86400 MEPO 4/421 | 86401 - 86600 MEPO 4/422 | 86601 - 86800 MEPO 4/423 | 86801 - 87000 MEPO 4/424 | 87001 - 87200 MEPO 4/425 | 87201 - 87400 MEPO 4/426 | 87401 - 87600 MEPO 4/427 | 87601 - 87800 MEPO 4/428 | 87801 - 88000 MEPO 4/429 | 88001 - 88200 MEPO 4/430 | 88201 - 88400 MEPO 4/431 | 88401 - 88600 MEPO 4/432 | 88601 - 88800 MEPO 4/433 | 88801 - 89000 MEPO 4/434 | 89001 - 89200 MEPO 4/435 | 89201 - 89400 MEPO 4/436 | 89401 - 89600 MEPO 4/437 | 89601 - 89800 MEPO 4/438 | 89801 - 90000 MEPO 4/439 | 90001 - 90200 MEPO 4/440 | 90201 - 90400 MEPO 4/441 | 90401 - 90600 MEPO 4/442 | 90601 - 90800 MEPO 4/443 | 90801 - 91000 MEPO 4/444 | 91001 - 91200 MEPO 4/445 | 91201 - 91400 MEPO 4/446 | 91401 - 91600 MEPO 4/447 | 91601 - 91800 MEPO 4/448 | 91801 - 92000 MEPO 4/449 | 92001 - 92200 MEPO 4/450 | 92201 - 92400 MEPO 4/451 | 92401 - 92600 MEPO 4/452 | 92601 - 92800 MEPO 4/453 | 92801 - 93000 MEPO 4/454 | 93001 - 93200 MEPO 4/455 | 93201 - 93400 MEPO 4/456 | 93401 - 93600 MEPO 4/457 | 93601 - 93800 MEPO 4/458 | 93801 - 94000 MEPO 4/459 | 94001 - 94200 MEPO 4/460 | 94201 - 94400 MEPO 4/461 | 94401 - 94600 MEPO 4/462 | 94601 - 94800 MEPO 4/463 | 94801 - 95000 MEPO 4/464 | 95001 - 95200 MEPO 4/465 | 95201 - 95400 MEPO 4/466 | 95401 - 95600 MEPO 4/467 | 95601 - 95800 MEPO 4/468 | 95801 - 96000 MEPO 4/469 | 96001 - 96200 MEPO 4/470 | 96201 - 96400 MEPO 4/471 | 96401 - 96600 MEPO 4/472 | 96601 - 96800 MEPO 4/473 | 96801 - 96975 MEPO 4/474 | 96976 - 97150 MEPO 4/475 | 97151 - 97325 MEPO 4/476 | 97326 - 97500 MEPO 4/477 | I do have this information to hand if members have a specific equiry re the odd officer

And the other page of his service sheet is below

Sorry just checked he joined 14/07/1890 (copied the date incorrectly) A copy of one page of his service sheet is attached

Your man is William Wells who joined 10/07/1890 as a PC in K Division (Bow) with the Warrant Number 75972 He was pensioned, still serving as a PC in K Div 0n 10/03/1917 (retired medically unfit). He served his whole career in K Div. You have his full entitlement to Police Medals His full name was William John Wells. Born 26/11/1867 in Bexhill Sussex. He was a blacksmith before he joined the force and he was single, living at Earl's Court.